Better on the Inside

I'm honestly laughing just thinking about recording this episode with Sharifa Stevens! Not hilarious and witty, she's also insightful, wise, compassionate and brilliant. A true Wizard! I'm excited to share this free-flowing conversation where tackle all sorts of topics like Hogwarts Houses, Harry Bellafonte, the pettiness of John the disciple, growing up in the Bronx, being an only child, injustice, love and theology.

Kate Guthrie is brilliant. A Pastor, Chaplain, Spiritual Director and just overall wonderful person, Kate wrote a prophetic dissertation in 2014 that is even more relevant today. While some of the terms may need updating, her observations about how our souls are shaped by digital media are prescient. Kate's grasp of modern spiritual formation is beyond necessary and wildly helpful.

I connected with Kate looking for a Spiritual Director, but she was so gracious enough to send me her dissertation too. And I was immediately hooked. I tore through her writing in one plane ride because what she was talking about was so pertinent to the world as I see it. I couldn't wait to talk to Kate, so I invited her on the podcast and wanted to share it with everyone.

Raconteur and Benevolent Cult Leader(?) Andrew Sears joins me on this episode. Andrew shares about the evolution of his spiritual journey, his experience with church and finding a home. We also get to talk about Tabletop Games, Video Games and the communities built around play. He said something profound that I think can apply to the church: everybody shows up and plays! That's so important.

Let's-a-go! Join Charlotte Elia and Jon Pyle as they dig deeper into the previous episode, answer your questions and share your insights. With an eye on how to apply, After Better on the Inside is meant to make an actual difference in your home and work life.

This week, Charlotte and I reflect on the diamonds from the phD mines that Becky Castle Miller dropped from her work on emotions in Scripture. We take some time to talk about the mystical/spiritual side of Christianity, contemplative prayer and dig deep into some emotional reflection. I believe integrating emotional health into discipleship is ABSOLUTELY necessary to find the freedom and peace we're all searching for. It is hard, but rewarding work.

Let's-a-go! Join Charlotte Elia and Jon Pyle as they dig deeper into the previous episode, answer your questions and share your insights. With an eye on how to apply, After Better on the Inside is meant to make an actual difference in your home and work life.

This week, Charlotte and I dive into my conversation with Sarah Styf around furthering the Kingdom online. The algorithm is not neutral. The algorithm is not your friend. The algorithm is gonna get you. [Cue the Miami Sound Machine]

Let's-a-go! Join Charlotte Elia and Jon Pyle as they dig deeper into the previous episode, answer your questions and share your insights. With an eye on how to apply, After Better on the Inside is meant to make an actual difference in your home and work life.

This week, Charlotte is both co-host and guest as we dive into her points about resigning from volunteer roles and making the digital hellscape safer for your people. We actually roleplay a successful conversation and strategize about how to respectfully avoid job creep.

What can small rural churches teach large churches about digital ministry? And how can we all (rural, urban, big, small, new, old) do digital better, together? Charlotte Elia is here to help expand our digital imagination and find our respective lanes in the digital space.

Charlotte is one of the funniest people ever but more importantly, an incredible voice in both rural and digital church spaces. She is the host of the How We Do Digital Ministry and Heavenly Banquet podcasts, valuable resources for anyone not just church leaders.

My guest this week is me. I invited my good friend Andy Mage to interview me because I wanted to share what I've learned this year.

When I started this podcast, it was because I was looking for answers. With all the scandals, abuse, and controversy surrounding the church, I wanted to know how to make the church "better on the inside". Specifically for those working, going to, visiting, volunteering for the church: how can you work for a church without losing your soul? Meaning, how can you do ministry and love Jesus even more? 

And the answers I've gotten are incredible. I had the privilege to speak to some of the most wonderful, wise and inspiring people this year. (I only name-dropped a few of y'all, but ALL OF Y'ALL were wonderful) So, I wanted to take the time to share what I learned from 25+ conversations that have changed how I see church, discipleship, pastoring, theology, miracles, Jesus and almost everything else. Andy & I dig into what has come out of this season, how it's changed me and what is coming next. 

Rob Fike is the first guest I've ever had on my socks!! (True story)

Rob & I are friends IRL and he's a fantastic dude. We've worked together, podcasted together, watched movies together, played basketball together and dreamed together. As a PK and non-profit sector veteran, Rob has a unique and impactful view of how to start and sustain movements. This is absolutely worth a lesson as we reflect on what it means to be a force for good in this world!

My conversation with Rose J. Percy is absolutely delightful. She is not only fun to talk to, Rose is creative, kind and brilliant. She uses the phrase "epistemic humility" seamlessly in conversation without batting an eyelash (and it makes sense). When she digs into the challenges of the industrial mindset of the church and what happens when you don't fit into the assembly line, it is MIND-BLOWING. Rose brings a much-needed organic, curious and beautiful perspective to our church life and our imagination. This was eye-opening and challenging for me, so I hope it effects you in similar way.

"I don't want to be needed, I want to belong. 

The songs of belonging are different, I can sing them with my whole body"

Jenai Auman is an absolute delight! I really enjoyed our conversation, which was filled with a lot of joy, even though it was about something terrible: spiritual abuse. Jenai and her family have a story all too familiar: going from excited church planters to wounded exiles, hobbling out of a community they loved and wanted to protect. While she is still healing, Jenai is telling her story and creating something beautiful from the ashes of her experience. And honestly, the future of the church belongs in the hands of folks like Jenai Auman.

Tracey Gee is a BOSS! I met her through Twitter and found her leadership insight and coaching invaluable but also accessible. So often “leadership” is a buzzword that doesn't really help most people or even a term that feels icky to some, especially in the church world. But that's not Tracey.

She is focused on unlocking everyone's strengths and helping you be your best. She shared some wonderful advice for anyone and everyone to be unleashed.

Very few people have experienced the inside of the "Evangelical Industrial Complex" quite like Dave McGinnis. As a kid who has grown up in the church (running a video switcher for the Christmas Program and switching transparencies for worship) with two parents & a wife on staff and also worked for churches himself, Dave has a unique perspective on the issues facing the church and how it could (potentially) be better on the inside. When you know how the sausage is made, when you've seen behind the curtain and experienced several hurts and calamities, how do you move forward with church? I don't know. But we have to do better!

I get to talk to a man I consider a celebrity: Tyler Huckabee! 

Tyler is someone I sincerely appreciate because he approaches complex issues with a great deal of nuance. Hearing his take on deconstruction was EXTREMELY helpful and instructive. Tyler is a reporter and breaks down deconstruction, this movement critiquing toxic religious systems, but why he's worried we won't go far enough. What does this have to do with "switching jerseys" and "redecorating the house"? You'll have to listen to find out. Plus we have a choose your own adventure-like question, explore Tyler variants and dive into the tension Jesus creates.

Volunteer Guru Mary Ann Sibley joins me for our first ever LIVE show! She is amazing. When I asked the question: "who should I talk to about volunteer burnout?" several people pointed me toward Mary Ann... and she did not disappoint.

Not growing up in the church, she has been willing to ask the questions and try the things that "churches don't do". Mary Ann also has led a toxic volunteer culture herself, so much of her wisdom is hard-won through blood, sweat and tears. I am thankful for her humility and insight. Whether you're a volunteer yourself, a church leader or someone who has been chewed up and spit out by the church machine Mary Ann brings tremendous truth, care and wisdom that will help you. She unpacks what makes toxic cultures toxic and what makes healthy cultures places people LOVE to serve.

I caught Jonathan Carone on Tik-Tok and I immediately wanted to have him on the show. His podcast, Unlearning Youth Group, has really connected with people deconstructing and wrestling in their spiritual journeys... but ALSO folks currently serving at a church and even leading Youth Ministry. When Jonathan realized that he had to "un-learn" some unhealthy theology that was hurting his own personal relationship with Jesus, he invited all of us on the journey with him. This is big for the church, but more importantly it's massively critical for people as they try to follow Jesus without sacrificing their mental health.

For this episode, I got to hang out with Holly Tate and have a delightful conversation about changing a toxic leadership culture, vulnerability, healthy growth, her own story and being a woman in ministry.