How NOT To Start A Damn Brewery: the podcast

Few people have been or will ever be as connected in the craft beer industry as Chris Black.

If you haven't met him or heard of him, then you surely caught wind that Downtown Denver had a little beer bar called Falling Rock Taphouse for 24 years.

In 1997 what we think of as the craft beer industry hadn't really begun yet. With only around 800 breweries in the US, opening a beer bar with 69 taps of what we call craft beer was an anomaly. And while it's hard to believe in 2023, opening a craft beer bar in Downtown Denver sounded like a risky and unproven idea.

But it's no exaggeration to say that Falling Rock and Chris Black were an integral part of crafting the shape of our industry. While he had a vibrant and loyal business year-round, Falling Rock was a mandatory stop for everyone visiting the Great American Beer Festival down the street from him every year. Unlike the average beer bar in your town, Falling Rock didn't ride the wave of craft beer, it was the moon that created the tides.

From humble beginnings in Houston to ascending to the top of the craft beer heap, he has seen and heard more about beer than J. Edgar Hoover did about our personal lives. His understanding of the business of craft beer is as wide as it is deep. And yet, in June of 2021, after steady declines and a grim forecast of the future, Chris, his brothers and their loyal fans and suppliers closed the taps on his iconic taphouse for the last time.

This is the story of Chris Black and the rise and fall of what we can only hope was his first craft beer bar - the Falling Rock Taphouse. I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed spending a couple hours talking with one of the few people I'd call my craft beer hero.

And when you get a guy like Chris to share his time and his insights, you give him a microphone, sit back and interrupt as little as possible. And that's the treat you'll get to experience in the fourth segment. It runs a little longer than I normally do but I couldn't bear to cut any of his opinions and insights.

And now, Chris Black.

Mike Detar is a creative motherfucker. 

Whatever he did in whichever career in which he did it, he was going to throw passion, fire and grit everywhere he went. Like many of us who are slaves to our creativity, he worked with a mix of attention to detail and a ‘grip it and rip it’ philosophy that took him right to the edge of innovation. 

When he opened his brewery in Washington State, he quickly found out that he was going to need every one of his unique talents to fight for profitability. Against rising expenses, city permitting, distribution, the beer drinkers in his local market, liquor laws, his partners. And, of course, a worldwide pandemic. 

For part of his story he lost his money, his brewery, his friend and even his wife.

But now he’s on to the next chapter and while not sure where the path leads, he knows he’s got the experience and tenacity to walk it with confidence. 

Sit back and listen to the story of the rise and fall of Spokane Washington’s Hidden Mother Brewery. 

Adam Cole got the call that so very many people in this industry dream of. 

Some rich asshole picked up the phone and tagged Adam to help him open an overbuilt, beautiful facility with a high-end restaurant. He got to design the brewery, pick out the equipment, set his brew schedule and design his own recipes. 

Best of all, he was given sweat equity for his investment of effort, intelligence and management. He was part of the ownership structure with everything that comes with it. 

The brewery opened, the beer started flowing and customers started drinking. A lot. They were off to a solid start but I have podcast because of what came next. You know, the part where the nightmare started. 

Costs skyrocketed. Labor was a mess. Sales plateaued and then declined. Partners left. The restaurant closed. Then the rich asshole bolted to Florida…….

I’ll let Adam tell it from his perspective but it’s a unique story from the other 40-something I have shared with y’all. 

Here is the story of Adam Cole and NewFangled Brew Works from Harrisburg, PA. 

In 1993 Alan Sprints opened a brewery in Portland, OR. He did his brewery his way making unique and interesting beers unlike what he found on his local shelves. With a culinary background he was, and is, a true artist, contrarian and inspired creator.

New Orleans is a drinking city.

And the brothers Boudreaux -David, Matt and Pat - decided this was the perfect place to open their dream. Well, the dream before the dream at least.

Those of us who pay attention to this podcast know that the future is uncertain for the craft beer industry overall. But the beer people in Abilene, TX are feeling the bubble burst maybe a little bit more than most cities.

In the first two months of 2023 Abilene lost half of it's breweries. One in January and the other one in February. The had both fought to stay afloat for years and even knowing the other was leaving, neither felt the market in Abilene could support them.

I caught up with Jeff from Pappy Slokum and James from Sockdolager Brewing and they agreed to do a collaboration interview.

They both experienced struggle, strain and the eventual collapse of their breweries. They both cited a market that is unsustainable and distributors that didn’t put their needs first. And they both wished the next generation of brewery owners the best - even if they weren’t sure how they’d get it.

Maybe most importantly, both Jeff and James seemed surprisingly at peace with their decisions to permanently lock the brewery doors and saunter away from the businesses they built from the ground up. Even after describing them as their babies.

I believe the story of Abilene’s Craft Collapse of 2023 is a harbinger of what’s to come in the next few years in the US craft beer industry. Listen in and let me know if you agree.

Christina and Jesse don’t make beer.

At least not commercially. They have a palate for bone-dry, flavor-driven ciders and their late project Redwood Coast Cidery was their gift to the hard apple cider drinking world. Or at least to the Bay Area of San Francisco.

These guys opened a Cidery in 2015 because they couldn’t find the styles of cider they liked to drink - which sounds a lot like every home brewer I knew in the early 2000s.

They opened on a responsible budget, grew quickly and expanded when it made sense. They had a plan to be the neighborhood hangout and to serve drinks to their friends, which sounds a lot like most breweries out there.

They made a variety of products inspired by flavor, not profit. Brewed to be enjoyed, not ticked off on Untappd. They were passionate about creating a brand that meant something by crafting products that were true to who they were and how they saw the world.

And, like entirely too many breweries with a similar ethos and whatever that French phrase is for Reason for Being, they were forced to close their doors. In late 2022 they closed both their production facility and their satellite tasting room. Putting a period, or maybe a comma in the story of Redwood Coast Cidery.

I caught up with them about a month after they locked the doors for the last time and they were gracious enough to share their story, the lessons they learned and their advice with each and every one of us.

So listen in, Because you’re about to learn something.

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Jim and Betsy Pence have been around the ‘ol block a few times.

After a love of wine led to a love of craft beer which opened the door to a love of mead, they decided to do what many of you are deciding to do.

They wrote a business plan and set about opening their very own craft meadery in Charlotte, NC. They chased after their dream, bought equipment, started brewing and then closed down almost immediately.

Then they did it two more times.

Jim has joined us to day to share what’s he’s learned by traversing the rocky road of building a business. Lease problems, real estate negotiations, supply chain issues, budget constraints and everything in-between.

Not surprisingly, craft mead faces much of the same bullshit craft beer faces. And after three failed attempts, Jim and Betsy’s story and their certainty that they’ll never do it again are an important lesson for the rest of us.

So listen in and listen up as we share the story of Shepherd’s Meadery.

Most people only have one spouse.

Having more than 2 careers at a time is rare.

The world would be far better off if we’d never had a second Crow movie. Or absolutely anything Keanu Reeves ever did other than John Wick.

There was only one ring in that book.

One goal can win a soccer match.

But somehow when it comes to the production of beer today, we think every brewery should make 7 million mediocre beers. One-offs, seasonals, brand extensions, variety packs and special releases. All this to catch the attention of a mass of asses that don’t care about beer or the traditional values it once held.

Well, Greg Taylor at Canada’s Steam Whistle brewing says only hosers would do that. He says it's all wrong. See, Greg and his co-founders started Canada’s largest craft brewery in the early 2000’s with a single goal: to make one beer and make it really, really well.

And they did for nearly 20 years before switching tracts at the roundabout and going Full US Craft Beer Gonzo. They were making various line extensions and new products until one day Greg runs back in the building, rips out the excess and goes back to their motto of “do one thing really, really well.”

Before I get too far into it, I’m going to shut up and let him explain his story.

https://steamwhistle.ca/

https://beaus.ca/

https://www.newbelgium.com/

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I’d like to introduce you to Bob Sylvester, founder, brewer and all-around badass from South Florida’s Brasserie St. Somewhere.

Bob started brewing back in the early days of this last craft beer explosion. You know, back in 2008 when owning a brewery was still counterculture, hip and a bit radical. He managed to create a unique and interesting lineup of beers that garnered him international acclaim and a loyal fanbase of like-minded craft beer drinkers. He grew from meager beginnings into a beautifully imagined brewery with a separate tasting room and every reason to expect growth and success.

And then, just a few years ago, he watched it all crash down around him. First his tasting room and then his worldwide distribution footprint. After trying to hold on, refocus and refinance the business he finally realized it was beyond saving.

Today we’re going to autopsy Bob’s brewery, Brasserie St. Somewhere, to find out what happened and what you can do differently in your own career.

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People like to say that I don't want people to follow their dreams if they're dreaming about mash paddles and mass distribution. While that's not entirely true, I do think the odds are you'll be living on ramen noodles and stolen Netflix. 

But if you ARE gonna start a brewery, the point would be to do it right and make some money. And before you get to that point, you have to figure out just how in the world you are gonna pay for it.

You’ll need hundreds of thousands of dollars, preferably someone else’s dollars.

My guest today is Jason Sleeman from the Craft Beverage Lending division of United Community Bank.

He’s sharp, he's experienced and he's on the front lines of the industry. He knows what’s worked, what hasn’t, what’s coming and what’s dead.

I asked him on the show partly because some you have said that I’m mostly negative. First of all, get over it - this is serious business and my entire goal is to show you the real and honest side of the industry that no one else seems willing to share. But Jason has a perspective centered around how to make a brewery happen, make it profitable and make it valuable. What you're about to hear him share with us over the next couple hours is invaluable. It also happens to be positive so there, are you happy now?

Craft Beverage Lending

Eddie Chimi, or Anderson, or whatever he's calling himself these days, is a craft beer industry veteran.

He’s damn near an expert on getting beer from the manufacturer to the asshole waiting in line to buy a can of it.

You know that I’m always on the lookout for people who’ve been around the craft beer block and lived to tell about it. And I’m fascinated to have conversations with people who are willing to disagree with me. Eddie fits both of those perfectly.

He worked at Goose Island before and after the sale that changed the world. He’s been a brewery rep for both large and small players. He narrowly escaped the noose of opening his own money sinkhole-I mean brewery. He’s worked at multiple distributors, including one that went out of business. He saw the inside of Shelton Brothers during the collapse. And he managed to get the fuck out of the industry with minimal mental health issues.

And through it all, he’s managed to stay just a swell fucking guy. His insights and experience shed light, maybe throw a little shade and educate and inform anyone considering a path down craft beer lane.

Earthlings, please prepare yourself for my interview with Eddie Anderson.

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You may not have heard of Kevin Abbott. But you’re not likely to forget him.

He’s a guy who’s brewed at three different breweries.

Today’s guest got bitten by the brewery bug in 2012. Back when there were less than 2500 breweries nationwide and you could still convince yourself that there was room for one more.

Like many of us he thought, start small, build it up slowly and grow incrementally over time. Invest in growth, recapitalize and add market share along the way to success.

But his multiple award-winning brewery got swallowed first by the massive growth of his massive brewery neighbors and then by an oversaturated industry overall.

He made great beers, great friends and left a lasting impact on the San Diego craft beer scene.

Join us as we discuss what it’s like to build a dream and watch it metamorphosize into a nightmare before your eyes.

If you’ve been paying attention over my last 20-whatever episodes you know that craft beer is an ugly place to try to make any money.

You do not go into beer to get rich. Or even to pay your light bill.

Well, here’s a news flash I bet you didn’t see coming:

HOMEBREW SHOPS AREN’T MAKING ANY, EITHER.

For today’s episode I sat down with Scott Birdwell to discuss what it’s like to own a homebrew shop for over 40 years and then watch it slowly die. This cat was selling homebrew equipment back when it was illegal.

He understood the business, his customers and the industry. But even he wasn’t ready for the disaster the industry experienced over the last 5 years.

We talk about leases, about beer and about business. I learned that the homebrew industry also struggled because of the overwhelming proliferation of breweries in America. Who knew that going from 1500 breweries in 2011 to 9000 in 2022 would create a problem?

I did, and I’m on a mission to share that story with everyone who’ll listen and 5 guys who won’t.

So sit back, crack a beer and listen to Scott’s story and the story of DeFalco’s Homebrew shop. You might just learn something.

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Dan Garrison is the founder and proprietor of TX’s first legal bourbon distillery, Garrison Brothers in Hye, TX. I wanted to interview Dan because I knew that there were lessons we could learn from how spirits goes to market. I was positive that there were overlaps in the cash flow model for aging bourbon vs fermenting beer. I knew that he had overcome massive obstacles on the path to building his nationwide brand. And I was certain that understanding his business would make us better in ours. What I didn’t know was that he was still chasing profitability after 17 years. That some of those struggles he overcame almost killed his small but high-end bourbon distillery. And I was surprised to hear him predict a saturation point similar to what the beer industry is experiencing now. Dan and I recorded this episode in the sunshine on the grounds of Garrison Brothers. I wasn’t the only one enjoying the TX bourbon that day so you’ll hear people talking, dogs barking and even a small plane circling overhead. I hope that helps you imagine you’re sitting at the table with us, enjoying the company and the bourbon. Dan was a gracious host. He was open with his story, freely discussing his successes and failures in ways few can manage. I was struck by his passion and inspired by his poetic description of the role of bourbon in a fulfilled life. I truly hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed recording this episode of the podcast. 

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What happens when a successful craft beer blogger, author and educator decides to dip her toe in the business side of craft beer?

Does the SBA switch horses mid-stream?

Does she get dizzy navigating the logistics of Atlanta’s city, county and local government permitting processes?

Does a worldwide pandemic and a heartless landlord throw rocks at her like a sweaty bully on the playground?

Jen Price is one of those people that makes this industry fun. She cares. She inspires. She reminds us not to take the beer more seriously than the fellowship around it. She’s brought countless people into the industry and then formed bonds of community between them. She embodies what craft beer originally claimed to be.

But when Jen decided to follow her dreams and open a brick and mortar taproom/bottleshop craft beer forgot to show her the same love she’s spent years showing it. He struggled, she failed and she learned. Learned what she wanted to do next and is throwing all her considerable energy into that.

Throw on your headphones and take a listen to the story of Jen Price and the Atlanta Beer Boutique.

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Today’s craft beer badass is Joe at Hanging Hills brewing in Connecticut. He’s a guy that’s been run through the ringer. He’s lost a best friend to craft beer. He lost money. He was marked for pain and suffering by an internet douchebag. He’s fought and bled to build his business, only to watch it cough and die in his arms.

But through all that, Joe Ploof is still a believer. He still wants to make beer and sell it to people. He scraped his shit together and 8 months after his closure he reopened as a contract brewery. He shares how he restructured his distribution footprint, reworked his recipes and even hired one of those fancy social media people.

In this episode he shares why he did it and why he believes he’s on the pathway to purpose in his life. It’s too early to tell if he’ll be more or less profitable than the tired old brick and mortar brewery model.

But by the end of my time with Joe I found myself wanting to believe. He’s a great guy who makes great beer and I appreciate the Hell out of everything he shared with us. Our yourself a beer and let’s get to it.

Today my friends and foes, we sit down with Adam Metcalf, General Manager and all-around cool dude at Aces and Ales in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Aces represents the trail-blazing craft beer bar. You know what I’m talking about because we all have an example of one near us. In virtually every market over the last decade, someone has come on the scene with a unique take on selling beer to people. They develop relationships with distributors, offer the most interesting and dynamically rotating craft beer selection in town and add personality to the process of boozing it up.

Selling craft beer at a craft beer bar isn’t unique.

But what is unique is to grow from one location to two, and then two locations to a third, complete with a brand-new brewery. Aces and Ales has crafted a solid business in a shaky industry.

And I wanted to sit with Adam in hopes that you and I might find out why. He was terrifically open and honest and by the end, I realized there was something special going on at Aces. Somehow years in this industry hadn’t beaten them down. I was struck by the fact that he was still passionate, still looking to the future and somehow still fucking happy about it.

There’s a lot to take away from this interview and for your sake, I hope to take it all. Cheers and listen in.

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Our guest today is Lauren Kendzierski of the late Black Rabbit Farm Brewery in Southwick, MA.

She did beer the way I did. Only more authentic and actually on a farm. Sadly, we can’t taste her beer now that her brewery has closed but we can hear the story and feel the passion that went into every bottle.

And I hope that both of those come through in this interview. She tells her story from inspiration to construction all the way to distribution and final dissolution. There’s a lot in there and I’m eternally grateful that she took the time to share it.

She knows her shit. She’s an artist. She even understands business. But as we’ll hear over the next couple of hours, it wasn’t enough to keep her farmhouse brewery alive.

You’ll notice I’m a little annoyed and maybe a little sad during parts of this interview. Lauren and her team got to do what I wanted to do. My long-term plan was to get back to the land and make beer the way they did. I’m well-aware now that it wouldn’t have changed the outcome of story, except maybe to add a few hundred thousand more to the amount of money I lost. But imagining how those days were spent still makes me nostalgic about it.

I hope you enjoy this episode and Lauren’s brewery’s story as much as I enjoyed recording it for you. Cheers and listen in.

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Our guest today is Dean Brundage of New Republic Brewing Company. 

Like any good drama, this is a story of love, hope, betrayal and complete annihilation. He and his business partner started their brewery together with stars in their eyes back in 2010. Only a few years later their disagreements turned into Dean being forced out of the company he helped found, create and build. New Republic has always had a cult following here in TX and to this day they have a legion of loyal fans. These guys produced a selection of straightforward beer styles with recognizable packaging that should have had a brighter future. I’m fond of saying that I don’t interview assholes that make shitty beer in ugly packaging and New Republic is a perfect fit for this podcast. Well, at least the partner I interviewed anyways…… 

We recorded this episode at The 101 in Bryan/College Station and owner Jeremy joined us in drinking, commenting and even a little bit in lamenting the direction this industry we all love is headed. I do want to apologize for some of the audio. There were some fans blowing and some cars passing by. I’ve cleaned it up substantially but there are some noises inherent with on-site interviews. I think loosening Dean’s lips with a steady flow of beer and the addition of Jeremy’s insights was worth the little bumps in the audio. I hope you agree. Dean also references how to take a deeper dive into the emotions and truth of exactly how he got ousted from the brewery he helped imagine into existence. His wife Adrienne had some things to say and I love it. 

Your best friend Harry has a brother Larry
In five days from now he's gonna marry
He's hopin' you can make it there if you can
'Cause in the ceremony you'll be the best man

While the lyrics of that 1989 Young MC jam have nothing to do with this episode, they’ve been bangin’ around in my head while I’ve edited it so now they’re in yours.

Our guest today is none other than the ubiquitous Harry Schumacher, the founder, writer, editor, podcaster and all-around badass at Beer Business Daily.

His is a publication that’s been reporting about beer and the business of beer since before most of us even know that it was possible to make beer that wasn’t fizzy yellow piss water.

He’s seen Kings made, empires fall and has insight into what makes the encumbant leaders in the beer business tick. He knows these CEOs personally and has reported on their successes as much as their failures.

And that’s why I wanted to have him on the show. He shares a perspective that most of us didn’t even know that we didn’t know. Since we only talk to other craft beer guys, we tend to miss some of the macro business metrics that drive the broader beer market. But Harry was generous enough to share his insights with us. So buckle in and knuckle up because Harry is about to take us on a big beer ride.

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Our guest today is Curt Webber from Solid Rock Brewing. He co-founded his brewery just before the craft beer scene in TX really started to take off. They had enough early success that any of us start-ups in the early 2010s would be lying if we said we weren’t measuring our potential by what they’d accomplished.

Like many of us, their plan was to learn as they went. And for awhile it looked like they were going to keep growing. But navigating the distribution business, maintaining a positive cash flow, and getting attention as new breweries flooded the market proved an overwhelming feat.
After 6 years, Solid Rock closed its doors.

Curt asked if we could do the interview on his boat on Lake Travis. I brought some Texas whiskey, he brought cigars, Irish Whiskey and some really great conversation.

Lake Travis brought the wind, passing boats and giggling paddleboarding girls, and while I could have edited them out, I decided to leave them all in so you can experience the conversation like I did.

When we wrap up at the end I’ll remind you that Curt has agreed to record a follow-up episode with questions submitted by you. Please feel free to send them to me on social media, email or Hell, if you have my mobile, give me a call.

It will become obvious very quickly how much fun we had recording this episode and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

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There was so much to share with this interview I had to break it into 2 shows. Part 2 will come out later this season. 

My guests today are Brett Bray and Theresa Hutchinson of the late Fetching Lab Brewery down in way South Houston.

Brett was a full-time financial advisor and a part-time homebrewer so he has qualified to own a brewery as most of us in the beginning.

Based on Brett’s research, he felt opening a brewery when there were less than 50 TX breweries was “so darn viable that you’d be a total idiot not to do it.”

In 2011, he announced on Twitter with the only tweet he’s even sent that he was going to open a brewery. At this point, he’d already been thinking about it for 2 years.

So he homebrewed hard for a year and a half every weekend on an all-grain system he cobbled together himself, with a little design help from Theresa.

After 6 long years of due diligence, practice and planning, Theresa and Brett finally ripped open their doors in 2015.

After ditching names like BadAss Brewing, at the last minute they decided to have the entire brewery inspired by their 11 week-old yellow lab. Which Theresa can do a much better job describing than I can….

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Today I am joined by Chris Rhodes of Off-rhodes Craft beer station. It’s a small taproom/bottleshop located here in New Braunfels serving arguably the best selection in town. He and his wife took what looked like a risk at the time and worked their tails off to make it a recognizable brand and loyal customers

Chris got his start in the industry working in bar management and even spent a brief sentence as a server in my Tasting Room. Prior to opening his shop he also started a Craft Beer Tour company right as the scene in our area started to take off. He’s well-known in our area and has been retailing beer now in his second location for years. It’s that experience that made me intrigued to interview him. Since he’s the at the end of the 3-tier system, his insights will help suppliers and distributors understand the market better.

When asked why he wants to peddle craft beer he answers like most of us do.

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My guest today is Byron Lewis, co-founder of Altmeyer and Lewis from San Marcos, TX. They were a brewery known for classic styles and solid execution. They never packaged and never signed with a distributor. And although Byron does have some regrets, that is NOT one of them. We get into the logistics of building and managing a brewery and even some of the emotions around tearing it back down.

The idea for the brewery came around Christmas of 2012 when Byron’s wife’s sister’s husband called. He said, “Hey I got some money and I want to open a brewery. Wanna be my partner?”

As a homebrewer, it was an offer Byron couldn’t pass up so A&L began making beer as a family partnership 2015. Since Stewart brought cash to the table, he was 51% owner. As the sweat equity guy, Byron had……

My guest today is Chris Rigoulot, the founder of Noble Rey Brewing in Dallas. Noble Rey came on the brewing scene in 2015 and made a splash with their can artwork. They quickly expanded across Texas and captured the attention of the craft beer scene with cool names, good beers and unique marketing. They expanded to two locations and by the end of 2018, word got out that they were in bankruptcy.

Chris got his start in this industry like most of us did. Brewing beer at home, working jobs he hated and dreaming of opening his own business making beer. He and his father bonded over their beer and decided to take their game pro.

In 2011 Chris started working at Dallas favorite, Peticolas Brewing, got into the American Brewer’s Guild school and finished up at Lakewood Brewing. It was during that time that he figured out the name he wanted to give the brewery and found himself overcome by the excitement of owning a beer business.

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