Skip to main content
Spotify for Podcasters
Making Creativity Pay

Making Creativity Pay

By Dan Barnett

Welcome to ‘Making Creativity Pay’, this isn’t a podcast about making millions, more about speaking to people in creative industries whether that’s music, literature, art or anything that relies on creativity about how that ties in with making a living from it.

The aim is not about selling out any creative endeavour but to ensure that there is at least some way to pay the bills and keep the lights on, money can be seen to be a vulgar part of the process but getting fairly paid for the time, effort and expertise you put in to something shouldn't be a bad thing.
Available on
Apple Podcasts Logo
Google Podcasts Logo
Pocket Casts Logo
RadioPublic Logo
Spotify Logo
Currently playing episode

Sophie Cross - Freelancer Magazine

Making Creativity PayFeb 04, 2022

Journalism with Fergus Morgan
Sep 22, 202328:37
A Preoccupation with Romantic Love
Aug 19, 202316:02
Hollywoodn't at the Fringe - Lisa Verlo
Aug 15, 202306:59
Digital PR and Social Media Marketing
Aug 15, 202325:50
Poetry and Matrimony at the Fringe

Poetry and Matrimony at the Fringe

"I've even been promoting on LinkedIn" - This episode I spoke to Lisa O'Hare about her Poetry/Spoken Word Show "Do you Remember The First Rhyme" and JJ Pyle about her show "How to Find a Husband in 37 Years or Longer"

We talk about Lisa being a first time performer after attending the Fringe for decades, JJ's X-Rated graffiti, being kicked out of Edinburgh's coffee shops and more.


Do you Remember the First Rhyme:

How to Find a Husband in 37 Years or Longer:







Aug 10, 202309:31
Wrestling with The Champ - Damien St John
Aug 05, 202342:50
Cowboys and Lesbians - Producer Eleanor Birdsall-Smith
Aug 04, 202307:29
Best Man and Attendants at the Fringe
Aug 04, 202308:36
Lisa Pizek - Too Big for Her Britches
Aug 03, 202315:38
Storytelling PR at Edinburgh Fringe
Jul 30, 202336:39
Meat Cute - 3 Years to get to the Fringe
Jul 27, 202319:35
Camden Fringe: 1 Month 300+ Shows
Jul 22, 202318:55
Steph Aritone: Excelf-Esteem

Steph Aritone: Excelf-Esteem

"Everything is data to me and everything is fascinating"- Steph talks about her new show Excelf-esteem which uses the data she finds all around her to drive her comedy.

We talk about the economics of running a show at the Edinburgh Fringe, promotion through social media, flyering and even using Near Field Communications to get the message out there.

We also cover her tactics for working with audiences at a Pay What You Can show, working on a "coward's hour" and also her evening compilation show "The Witching Hour" and her podcast "The Comedy Wine List"

You can find Steph at:



Steph at Camden Fringe:

Jul 18, 202318:06
Juliette Burton - No Brainer

Juliette Burton - No Brainer

"for me activism comes first" - this episode we talk to Comedian and Writer Juliette Burton about her Edinburgh Fringe show 'No Brainer' how she uses both the 'old-school' techniques of radio and flyering as well as online methods to draw an audience.

Juliette talks about the importance of being part of a bigger team or family at the Fringe and how she aims for her shows to drive action as well as entertain.

We discuss why Juliette's performing at the fringe for 10 days rather than the full month and also discuss the 3 years it took to create the podcast series 'Not-So Lonely Planet'

More about Juliette:

Edinburgh Fringe show 'No Brainer':



Not So Lonely Planet Podcast:

BBC Radio Surrey Interview:

More episodes and blogs around making creativity pay at: 

Or find us on Twitter:

Jul 10, 202329:31
AI Podcasting and Video Becky Lamb-Pritchard
May 24, 202313:31
Mark Asquith - Podcast Hosting
May 22, 202312:22
Megan Hayward - Podcast Producer
May 19, 202317:01
Comedy Producer - Gina Lyons
Apr 23, 202332:43
Sean Adams - Drowned in Sound
Apr 04, 202338:53
Dr Hayleigh Bosher - Copyright in Music

Dr Hayleigh Bosher - Copyright in Music

Our guest is Dr Hayleigh Bosher - Senior Lecturer in Intellectual Property Law at Brunel University.

We discuss how musicians can educate themselves around copyright and getting paid when their music is used, the #BrokenRecord campaign for better pay for performers and composers, along with some examples of copyright such as Louis Theroux and Jiggle Jiggle and David Guetta creating an AI Eminem.

We also talk about her podcast 'Whose Song is it Anyway' the first two seasons which were co-hosted with Jules O’Riordan (Entertainment Lawyer and artist known as Judge Jules) which has included guests such as Imogen Heap, Crispin Hunt and Kevin Brennan MP talk about a wide range of music related areas such as performers rights, sampling, working with other artists, blockchain in music and lots more. 

We go on to talk about the third season of the podcast which has a focus on Women in Music from all sides of the industry and levels of experience that launches on 1st March 

Eminem New Zealand Case:



Duke & Jones talking about Neil Diamond clearing use of 'Red Red Wine' for Louis Theroux's 'Jiggle Jiggle'  

David Guetta with AI Eminem: 

Hayleigh on Twitter, links to her books and more:

Feb 28, 202337:20
Chapters in Podcasts - It's a clip show!

Chapters in Podcasts - It's a clip show!

Chapters and Chapter art are a great way of adding extra context to a podcast or direct listeners to a specific part and what better way to show that with some clips from previous guests on Making Creativity Pay.

I know it's a huge ask of someone's time to listen to an hour long podcast of someone they've not listened to before and that can put someone off before they've even started. Good chapters and show notes can help encourage someone to take a leap of faith.

These chapters are quick snippets of each episode, there's a ton more great discussion in each full episode.

If you're listening via Apple Podcasts, chapter art and individual chapters will be visible if you start playing the episode then select the episode banner towards bottom of the screen and then you can scroll through, on Spotify, the timestamps will link to that point in the episode. 

(00:00) Welcome to Making Creativity Pay

This episode serves two purposes, it’s an introduction to some of the people I’ve spoken to so far and also an example of what can be done using chapters within podcasting.

(00:39) Stuart Goldsmith - Comedian's Comedian

First guest up for the podcast was comedian Stuart Goldsmith who discussed how monetising his podcast developed. Stu's upcoming online special I Need You Alive is on 23rd Feb at

(01:41) Matt Curtis - Pellicle

Matt Curtis runs a beer, wine and travel related online magazine and podcast called Pellicle. Matt talked about the ethos of the site being free to view for everyone with a 'Pay if you Can' message so nobody misses out but gets across the point that without income there is no site. Lots of great content on there, not least this love letter to Scampi Fries

(04:03) Mark Steadman - Origin FM

Mark Steadman - founder at podcasting company we discussed the value of Putting the effort in to your podcast for the future not just the immediate listener. Check out Mark's newsletter The Big Minute which every week picks a new podcast and details what makes it stand out

(06:55) Sophie Cross - Freelancer Magazine

With Sophie Cross Founder and Editor of Freelancer magazine talked about why she set up a print magazine in an increasingly digital world. The magazine is now entering it's third year and is available at

(08:03) Joz Norris - Edinburgh Fringe Posters

I’ve also spoken to a number of comedian’s about the economics of performing at the Edinburgh Fringe, one of which was Joz Norris and the clip describes about how they tried to convey ethos of their Edinburgh Fringe show and encourage people to attend from just a poster. Find out more about Joz at

(09:30) Cerys Bradley - A Month at Edinburgh

On the same episode as Joz, I spoke To Cerys Bradley and they talked about why Edinburgh is different to other festivals and how performing the show daily improves it but that having to do a full month is maybe not the optimal way of doing things.

(10:52) Suchandrika Chakrabarti - Show Marketing

On a separate episode I spoke to comedian Suchandrika Chakribati about the balance between Online vs Traditional marketing for getting people in to shows and how its becoming increasingly digital.  

(12:58) James Cridland - Sustainable Creativity in Podcasting

I’ve also spoken to James Cridland, Editor of Podnews about the potential improvements and opportunities in podcasting from Chapters and Transcriptions through to microtransactions and subscriptions.

Chapters, images & show notes powered by

Feb 13, 202314:35
James Cridland - Making Money From Podcasting

James Cridland - Making Money From Podcasting

This episodes guest is James Cridland, James is Editor of Podnews, a daily Podcast and Newsletter about the world of Podcasting.

In the episode we talk about a range of subjects around podcasting and monetisation including:



Subscriptions - Apple/Spotify/Patreon

How to ask for money - e.g., Buy Me a Coffee and how countries differ in terms of the culture of asking for money for your creative work


Microtransactions in Podcasting including the Fountain App

Podcasting 2.0 - Chapters, Transcripts and more

AI in podcasting - Speechify and Veritone

James is also co-host (along with Sam Sethi) of Podnews Weekly Review which is a more in-depth look at podcasting with guests from throughout the industry.

James also has a blog on Medium discussing Technology, Data and more

Jan 24, 202335:24
Suchandrika Chakrabarti - I miss Amy Winehouse

Suchandrika Chakrabarti - I miss Amy Winehouse

This episode is with Suchandrika Chakrabarti talking about her 2022 Edinburgh Fringe show 'I miss Amy Winehouse', selecting a venue, promoting it on TikTok and flyering by the bins.

We talk about having a show with a mixed ticketed/pay what you want model, traditional vs. online marketing and the process of doing it all again for 2023 along with the differences between in person and Zoom shows as she will be doing for the upcoming Access festival.

Suchandrika performed at Paradise Green, and the 'Cost Estimator' for staging a show that she mentions in the episode is available here 

In early 2023 you can catch the work in progress for the new show at:

16th Jan - Access Festival (Online):

29th Jan 2023 - Bill Murray Pub London:

21st/22nd Feb Vault Festival London:

Cover Art - Image © Natalie Barbara

Dec 28, 202239:15
Joz Norris, Cerys Bradley and Stu Goldsmith Edinburgh Fringe Insights

Joz Norris, Cerys Bradley and Stu Goldsmith Edinburgh Fringe Insights

Dec 12, 202201:10:13
Transcription Testing

Transcription Testing

We'll be doing an episode soon on importance of transcription in podcasting, this is just a test for now to compare the huge variety of tools out there that can be used.  If you're listening to this - check out the back catalogue!

Oct 16, 202203:21
Cerys Bradley - Edinburgh Fringe Q&A
Aug 12, 202210:49
Edinburgh Fringe - Stu Goldsmith
Jul 20, 202244:54
Sophie Cross - Freelancer Magazine

Sophie Cross - Freelancer Magazine

Sophie is editor and founder of Freelancer Magazine which she started in 2021 via a kickstarter campaign. We talk about the issues of setting up a physical print magazine in a digital age, her background in Marketing, developing a newsletter, building an online and real world community around  freelancing as well as her online courses for Marketing and LinkedIn.

Sophie can be found on Twitter, Instagram and at LinkedIn.

Feb 04, 202244:00
Mark Steadman of Podcode - Podcasting and Building Online Communities

Mark Steadman of Podcode - Podcasting and Building Online Communities

Mark Steadman is founder of and helps podcasters develop, produce and promote their podcasts.

Mark has been involved in podcasting since it's inception and we talk about a range of areas in the industry such as:

Building momentum for your podcast

The future of podcasts: The open ecosystem of RSS vs. the walled garden approach of Spotify

Building an online community

Building and selling a podcasting company: Sale of Podiant to Castos

Payment propositions for online content: Pay what you want vs. Value for Value vs. Fixed Price

Mark and Podcode are available @aMarkSteadman on Twitter and loads of podcasting advice at their YouTube Channel and Facebook Page

Jan 29, 202201:08:26
Matt Curtis of Pellicle - Beer Writing and Photography

Matt Curtis of Pellicle - Beer Writing and Photography

Making creativity pay is a podcast discussing how those in creative industries look to monetise their work, not to sell out their craft but to be able to afford to keep going.

In this episode I talked to Matt Curtis, co-founder of Pellicle a magazine and podcast devoted to exploring beer, wine, cider, food and travel and the joy found within these cultures.

We discuss how Matt got into Beer writing, the 'pay what you want' ethos behind Pellicle, the state of the brewing industry, their expansion into podcasting, his new book Modern British Beer and lots more.

Matt can be found on Twitter @TotalCurtis and @PellicleMag

Matt's brewery photography is at Total Ales

Pellicle are also on Patreon where you can find out more about their supporter tiers

Jan 19, 202201:00:31
Stuart Goldsmith - Comedian's Comedian
Jul 19, 202141:41