Dissident Orthodoxy
By Casey Hobbs
Dissident Orthodoxy Sep 20, 2022
Audrey Clare Farley - Girls and their Monsters
*****In the conversation we cover sensitive topics such as child sexual abuse.****
Dr. Audrey Clare Farley rejoins the pod to discuss her new book Girls and Their Monsters: The Genain Quadruplets and the Making of Madness in America. In the early 20th Century a set of quadruplet girls became instant celebrities. Like many childhood stars the story becomes complex and dark under the surface. Audrey and I discuss the shadow sides of human nature as well as my own personal experience being a twin...though thankfully my story is vastly different than the quadruplets!
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Stephen Kinzer - on the US's immoral proxy war in Ukraine
Stephen Kinzer returns to discuss the coverage and lack of debate on the war between Russia and Ukraine. Bringing his well-earned experience to bear Stephen calls attention to the realities of war and the need for a rational conversation about a peaceful end to the conflict. We also discuss the existential risk of nuclear war and the US's lack of moral standing to wage yet another proxy war.
We also cover common objections (sometimes waged in good faith!) to supporting a cease fire in Ukraine.
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Stephen Kinzer is an award-winning foreign correspondent who has covered more than 50 countries on five continents. His articles and books have led the Washington Post to place him “among the best in popular foreign policy storytelling.”
Kinzer spent more than 20 years working for the New York Times, most of it as a foreign correspondent. His foreign postings placed him at the center of historic events and, at times, in the line of fire.
PUTIN & ZELENSKY: SINNERS AND SAINTS WHO FIT OUR HISTORIC NARRATIVE
THE INCALCULABLE MORAL COST OF PROXY WARS
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As always feel free to reach out and agree/disagree. Nobody has all the answers but we can all ask good questions and engage in good faith.
Aaron Leonard - Music, Rebellion & Repression 1955-1972
Writer and historian Aaron Leonard comes back on the show to talk about his latest book Whole World in Uproar - Music, Rebellion and Repression 1955-1972. In the interview we talk about state repression of The Beatles, FBI files on Dylan's girlfriend and why Phil Ochs and Jefferson Airplane deserve attention as radical artists of the 60's.
Along the way we talk about various illegal and immoral wars (past and present), drugs (why they should all be legal), sex (ok not too much sex in this one) and rock and roll (lots of material here!)
Check it out and order the book from Repeater Books!
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Miguel A. De La Torre - Resisting Apartheid America
Dr. Miguel A. De La Torre, professor of Social Ethics and Latinx Studies at the Iliff School of Theology in Denver, Colorado, joins the conversation to discuss his new book Resisting Apartheid America: Living the Badass Gospel. We get into what it means to push back against received narratives and roles for the sake of our neighbors as well as the differences (if there are any) between the two major parties in the US, particularly when it comes to upholding a white supremacist viewpoint.
As usual there are rabbit trails and some laughs along the way!
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Dennis Baron - You Can't Always Say What You Want
Dennis Baron joins the conversation to discuss his forthcoming book ""You can't always say what you want: The paradox of free speech" (Cambridge Univ Press, 2022)" and the state of free speech in today's America. We get into conversation about all things free speech from government interference with social media companies to the impact of a changing understanding of the second amendment and its impact on the ability of groups and individuals to make their voices heard without threat of violence. We also get into the somewhat dystopian present and future of free speech!
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Dennis Baron writes about the English language and the technologies of communication. In addition to his scholarly publications, he writes frequently on language and technology issues in the news, and his essays have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, and many other papers; he is regularly consulted by journalists and has appeared on CNN, NPR, the BBC, the Voice of America, and the CBC -- he's discussed the changing English language with radio hosts ranging from Stephen Fry to Joan Rivers. He's interested in language and the law, has consulted in a number of legal cases, and served as lead author of "the Linguists' Brief," a grammatical and semantic analysis of the Second Amendment in the Supreme Court case District of Columbia v. Heller (2008). That amicus brief was cited in both the majority and minority opinions.
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Ukraine is Afghanistan is Iraq is Vietnam is...[Substack Reading]
The justification for war is as endless as the long and virtually unbroken record of war in the US. Is there another way to understand the destruction of Ukraine and the potentialities of direct US or NATO military engagement with Russia? Does it make sense to continue funding a war instead of forcing a peace deal? Is it too late to give peace a chance?
Casey reads his latest substack piece about the endless loop of war propaganda we find ourselves enmeshed in once again. It's not too late to fight for peace but the time to do so is now.
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Dave Barnhart - Are Psychedelics the Future of the Church?
Are we in a new reformation? It sure seems that way. With everything on the table as far as faith, spirituality, along with political unrest and the increasing hollowing out of capitalism's promises, can psychedelics help birth what's next? Dave Barnhart, a pastor, author, teacher, church planter and mental health counselor joins to offer his experience and imagination to the conversation.
Along the way we talk about the virtues and vices of social media, the healing potential of psychedelics for anxiety, OCD and PTSD and more!
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Kenton Bartlett - Psychedelic Therapy and lasting change
After learning about the healing potential of oft-maligned substances, particularly in a therapeutic setting, today's guest found a gap in accessibility in Alabama and he did something about it. Kenton Bartlett is a Psychedelic Therapist here in Birmingham, AL. We got to talk about the movement to reintroduce life-changing medicines from Ketamine to Psylocibin (aka mushrooms), LSD, MDMA and more.
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Haeden Wright - Brookwood Miner's Strike
Nearly 600 days into coal miners here in Alabama taking a stand for their rights and the wellbeing of their families against the Warrior Met Coal company, the fight continues. Haeden Wright has stepped up as a leading voice within the Brookwood coal mining community.
Haeden Wright is UMWA Auxiliary Locals #2368/#2245 President, Alabama SDEC HD 49 Representative, SDEC Executive Board CD #6. She is the wife of a striking miner and comes from a long line of Alabama union coal miners.
More about Brookwood Miner's strike:
UMWA: How private equity firms caused the UMWA strike in Brookwood
Haeden interviewed by Kim Kelly
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Paul Bowers - Student debt forgiveness
Paul Bowers, a writer with a substack called Brutal South (that you should follow immediately). He joins to discuss his recent piece Debt holds the whole thing together. We discuss Biden's $10,000 student debt relief plan, the morality of debt and the collective imagination we might find if we embraced an ethic of Jubilee.
Paul's recommended organizations:
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Lauren Turek - Russia, Ukraine and Endless War
Aaron Leonard - The Folk Singers and the FBI
Woody Guthrie, Pete Seager and Sis Cunningham, among many others, were the targets of the House of Unamerican Activities Committee (HUAC) from just before WWII to just after. Aaron Leonard discusses this history and the redbaiting aftereffects still alive and well nearly a century later.
Order Aaron Leonard's book: The Folk Singers and the Bureau: The Fbi, the Folk Artists and the Suppression of the Communist Party, Usa 1939-1956
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Matt Sutton - The CIA's secret missionary spies
Ok we've established that the CIA is and has always been an institution that has been up to no good. We've also discussed the fact that Wild Bill Donovan was more than ready from the beginning to use religion as a tool for spycraft both domestically and abroad.
This week we complicate matters with the story of the missionary-turned-spies in Germany at the beginning of WWII with Dr. Matthew Avery Sutton discussing his book Double Crossed: The Missionaries Who Spied for the United States During the Second World War.
We get into the ethics of deceit, of being used by a government apparatus in the extreme circumstances of Nazi Germany. Are there lessons for today? What does it mean to make decisions when there don't seem to be good options?
I'd love to hear your feedback on this conversation! Email Casey at dissidentorthodoxypodcast@gmail.com with your thoughts!
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Michael Graziano - Religion as a tool of the CIA
Is nothing sacred? When it comes to American exceptionalism, at least religious practice sure isn't.
As Dr. Michael Graziano discusses in this episode, right from the beginnings of the CIA, part of the strategy to advance American interests around the world was the co-opting of religion. The conversation touches on the overthrow of Mossadegh in Iran and the resulting Islamic Revolution of 1979, denigration of Buddhism leading into the Vietnam War and the religious backlash to 9/11.
Check out the book here! Errand into the Wilderness of Mirrors: Religion and the History of the CIA.
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Dean Strang - The FBI has always been anti-labor and anti-left
Since at least the early Trump days a curious thing has happened among the liberal/left. Instead of reviling the FBI and viewing it as a tool to enforce Capitalism these same government spooks have become heroes. The bizarre trend goes on with the recent raid of Trump's files in Mar a Lago. Since when is the left supposed to be allied with the DOJ and FBI?
Dean Strang - the defense lawyer we all know from Netflix's 2015 Making a Murderer - joins to tell the wild story of how the Department of Justice took on its power in the early 1900's. Yes, their first act was to crush the Wobblies (IWW). You can read all about it in his 2019 book Keep the Wretches in Order: America's Biggest Mass Trial, the Rise of the Justice Department, and the Fall of the IWW.
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Dean Strang is a criminal defense lawyer and author of two books of legal history that explore the experience of outsiders and newcomers in the U.S. judicial process during the World War I era. He has written several law review articles as well.
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Peter Cole - Wobblies: solidarity as religion
That was the Wobblies' idea at the beginning of the 20th Century.
Dr. Peter Cole joins the conversation to talk about the legacy and relevance of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW).
Peter Cole is Professor of History at Western Illinois University and Research Associate at the Society, Work and Development Institute, University of the Witwatersrand. He is the author of Wobblies on the Waterfront (University of Illinois Press, 2007) and editor of Wobblies of the World (Pluto, 2017).
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Stephen Kinzer - MK Ultra, the CIA and LSD
Legendary journalist Stephen Kinzer discusses his 2019 book Poisoner in Chief: Stanley Gottlieb and the CIA Search for Mind Control. As it turns out, the CIA is not to be trusted and, yes, US intelligence has a long and unbroken history of torture. But, no, there's not really such a thing as mind control. A decade or so of MK Ultra proved as much. As Kinzer says, "the only one mind control worked on was Gottlieb himsef."
Throughout the course of our conversation we also discover the reason John Lennon always remembered to thank the CIA and what accidentally sparked the brilliance of Ken Kesey and the Grateful Dead, turning out a generation of anti-war hippies.
We also discuss the potential benefits to using psychedelics in safe, responsible and therapeutic settings!
Stephen Kinzer is the author of many books, including The True Flag, The Brothers, Overthrow, and All the Shah’s Men. An award-winning foreign correspondent, he served as the New York Times bureau chief in Nicaragua, Germany, and Turkey. He is a senior fellow at the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University, and writes a world affairs column for the Boston Globe. He lives in Boston.
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Daniel K Williams - Abortion, Right, Left and the Politics of the Cross
We also discuss the historical context of the abortion conversation, why Republicans were pro-choice pre-Roe, why Liberals and Leftists alike were largely pro-life at the time. The historical lessons, as always are instructive to addressing both the political and the moral ramifications of the questions today.
We also discuss why a better approach would be to offer substantive policies (one might even call them "concrete" or "material") instead of slogans and false promises offered each election.
Mentioned in this Episode:
www.patheos.com/blogs/anxiousbench/2020/12/im-not-leaving-evangelicalism-even-with-its-unfortunate-political-choices/
religionnews.com/2021/06/03/sbc-sources-paige-patterson-made-black-girl-comments-cited-in-russell-moore-letter/
www.christianpost.com/news/mike-stone-russell-moore-letter-an-attempt-to-sway-sbc-election.html
www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/daniel-williams-defenders-unborn/435369/
www.alibris.com/The-Politics-of-the-Cross-A-Christian-Alternative-to-Partisanship-Daniel-K-Williams/book/48546009?matches=34
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Promo Music by Orbach orbach.bandcamp.com/album/orbach
Theme Music by Small Fish: soundcloud.com/small-fish
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Brendan J. Payne - Gin, Jesus and Jim Crow
Dr. Brendan J. Payne joins to discuss his book Gin Jesus and Jim Crow: Prohibition and the Transformation of Racial and Religious Politics in the South from LSU Press. Brendan traces the prohibition debate through the lens of Baptist and Methodist traditions, in concert with the progressive voices of the day who successfully lobbied for the 18th Amendment. A familiar theme arose in his research. White religious folk and politicians were...wait for it...super racist and used Black voters as pawns while doing little to nothing to secure their rights.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
A note about the podcast: This will be the last in the season, we'll be returning in August but with a new name! Henceforth we'll be known as Dissident Orthodoxy. The feed will stay the same and the content will be similar. Look for some new art work, new music and a bit more descriptive language for what I've been aiming at these two years!
Talk to you in August!
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BRENDAN J. J. PAYNE is chair of the Department of History at North Greenville University in South Carolina.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Kathryn Gin Lum - Heathen - Religion and Race in American History
Dr. Kathryn Gin Lum discusses her forthcoming book from Harvard University Press Heathen - Religion and Race in American History. The conversation includes not only historical context of Christianity's heightened focus on dehumanizing outsiders with the "settling" of America but also contemporary examples of this phenomenon. As usual, we attempt to identify the primary beneficiaries of racism both then and now.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://religionnews.com/2022/03/22/whats-alien-about-war-in-europe-the-heathen-world-offers-clues/
https://religionnews.com/2022/03/22/whats-alien-about-war-in-europe-the-heathen-world-offers-clues
Kathryn Gin Lum is a historian of religion and race in America and the author of Damned Nation: Hell in America from the Revolution to Reconstruction. Her writing has appeared in the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, and Christian Century. She is Associate Professor of Religious Studies, in collaboration with the Center for Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity, at Stanford University.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Kathleen Wellman - The Christian Right has Hijacked History
Dr. Kathleen Wellman stops by to discuss her book Hijacking History: How the Christian Right Teaches History and Why It Matters. The subject matter, for Casey, is deeply personal, being taught in Christian schools with Abeka Book curricula from junior high school to graduation. History, in the world of right-wing Christian education is...shall we say...unique. Ever wondered how Moses, John Calvin and Thomas Aquinas led directly to the founding of America? Ever wondered why Capitalism is a gift from God and Communism/Socialism/The New Deal is directly from the pit of hell?
You've come to the right place!
Kathleen Wellman is Dedman Family Distinguished Professor of History and Altshuler Distinguished Teaching Professor at Southern Methodist University
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Audrey Clare Farley - Evangelical Eugenics
Audrey Clare Farley joins the conversation to talk about Evangelicals and their longstanding connection to something called "positive eugenics" (looking at you Dr. Dobson). Dr. Farley wrote an article in Religion and Politics on just this topic. It's surprising, shocking, and, well, interesting, if we're being honest!
We also talk about her recent book The Unfit Heiress: The tragic life and scandalous sterilization of Ann Cooper Hewitt that puts it all in narrative form!
Check out more of Dr. Audrey Clare Farley's work here!
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Fran Quigley - Religious Socialism: the time is right
We also feature a long (and persuasive, I might add) pitch to join the DSA's Religion and Socialism Working Group!
About Fran Quigley:
A longtime human rights activist and member of faith-based and health care access advocacy groups, Fran Quigley is a clinical professor at the IU Robert H. McKinney School of Law, where he directs the Health and Human Rights Clinic.
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Charisse Burden-Stelly and Erica Caines - Ukraine and Russia and NATO's war of aggression
Holy shit.
Russia has invaded Ukraine. The borders of a sovereign nation (ahem. in Europe) have been compromised for the first time since WWII. Is Putin Hitler? Is Zelenskyy Superman? The narrative around Ukraine is so hysterical that even war criminal Condoleezza Rice - with a straight face - is denouncing preemptive war.
The US's role in this? Who knows. Just selling arms to a nation bordering Russia. Nothing to see here. NATO? Oh well, that's just too complicated to figure out, right?
Dr. CBS and Erica Caines from Black Alliance for Peace are here to call Bullshit. NATO, under US leadership, has been surrounding Russia since the days George H.W. Bush's National Security Advisor promised that NATO would expand "not an inch eastward" way back in 1990. So maybe this whole thing isn't about Putin losing his marbles, or about Ukraine's US-funded neo-nazi Azov Battalion but US imperialism?
You'll have to listen to hear more!
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.blackagendareport.com/biden-harris-and-never-ending-commitment-war-and-terror
https://www.blackagendareport.com/against-triple-evils-biden-administrations-affront-dr-kings-legacy
https://blackallianceforpeace.com/background-rationalization
https://blackallianceforpeace.com/resourcesonukraine
Aaron Griffith - God's Law and Order Part 2
Part 2 of 2
Dr. Aaron Griffith discusses his book God's Law and Order: The Politics of Punishment in Evangelical America. Aaron and Casey discuss the influence of 20th century Evangelicals (a la Billy Graham and a little Johnny Cash) and the rise of the carceral state in the US. We get into the particulars of the developing focus on individual redemption, oftentimes (but not always!) to the exclusion of systemic reform and we flesh out some connections to current abolitionist movements as well as conservative Christianity.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Biko Mandela Gray - Malcolm X's Theology
On February 21, 1965, Malcolm X was assassinated at the Audubon Ballroom in Harlem. In the decades that have followed his legacy as a leader, an orator, a thinker and an all-around badass has been well-established. Although, let's be real, there's always more to say.
Dr. Biko Mandela Gray joins the conversation to discuss Malcolm X's theological development from a Marcus Garvey-influenced Christianity to following the Prophet Elijah Mohammad to orthodox Suni Islam. We get into the stories of Malcolm's life as well as the stories that animated the Nation of Islam in his day.
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Dr. Gray’s work operates at the nexus and interplay between continental philosophy of religion and theories and methods in African American religion. His research is primarily on the connection between race, subjectivity, religion, and embodiment, exploring how these four categories play on one another in the concrete space of human experience. He also is interested in the religious implications of social justice movements. He is currently working on a book project that explores how contemporary racial justice movements, like Blacklivesmatter, demonstrate new ways of theorizing the connection between embodiment, religion, and subjectivity.
Check out Biko's forthcoming book Black Life Matter: Blackness, Religion and the Subject
Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention by Manning Marable
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Aaron Griffith - God's Law and Order (Part 1 of 2)
Part 1 of 2
Dr. Aaron Griffith discusses his book God's Law and Order: The Politics of Punishment in Evangelical America. Aaron and Casey discuss the influence of 20th century Evangelicals (a la Billy Graham and a little Johnny Cash) and the rise of the carceral state in the US. We get into the particulars of the developing focus on individual redemption, oftentimes (but not always!) to the exclusion of systemic reform and we flesh out some connections to current abolitionist movements as well as conservative Christianity.
Follow Aaron Griffith's twitter
Order God's Law and Order: The Politics of Punishment in Evangelical America
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Support us on Patreon and win a book!
Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Freddie deBoer - Leftists have work to do
Freddie deBoer, prolific writer, Marxist scholar and influential voice of the American left, sits down for a chat. Typically in political discourse we spend endless time and energy taking shots at opposing political parties. Let's be honest, it's fun and really easy. Sometimes even cathartic. The only problem is that a myopic critique of "the other" is neither morally consistent nor politically useful.
Freddie and Casey discuss the left's trend towards nihilism, and our preference toward winning moral battles, even if that means losing ground in terms of real power. As Freddie reiterates many times throughout the episode, we have real work to do if we want to see a more socialistic future.
Order The Cult of Smart
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Maureen H. O'Connell - Undoing the Knots: Five Generations of American Catholic Anti-Blackness
Dr. Maureen H. O'Connell joins the conversation to discuss her new book Undoing the Knots: Five Generations of American Catholic Antiblackness. We talk about the history of racism and antiracism through the prism of her hometown Philadelphia. In the course of our dialogue, we get into what it means to engage in the work of repentance that goes beyond virtue signaling and the significance of racial mercy.
Maureen H. O’Connell is associate professor and chair of the Department of Religion and Theology at LaSalle University. She authored Compassion: Loving Our Neighbor in an Age of Globalization and If These Walls Could Talk: Community Muralism and the Beauty of Justice. She is a member of POWER (Philadelphians Organizing to Witness, Empower, and Rebuild), an interfaith coalition of more than 50 congregations committed to making Philadelphia the city of “just love” through faith-based community organizing.
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Music: Orbach
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Daniel Bessner - Leftist Perspectives on US Foreign Policy
How can the Christian Left engage more fully with the broader US Left, particularly when it comes to foreign policy? What do the prophets have to say to us today about whistleblowers like Julian Assange, Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning? What big questions does the broader US Left have for the Christian Left?
Daniel Bessner, Assistant Professor in American Foreign Policy in the Henry M. Jackson School of International Studies at the University of Washington, joins Casey to discuss all these questions and more in a wide-ranging interview. Bonus of this episode is that Daniel flips the script and asks Casey some questions. Enlightening and fun for all!
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Daniel Bessner currently holds the Joff Hanauer Honors Professorship in Western Civilization at the University of Washington. He is a member of the Henry M. Jackson School of International Studies and was previously the Anne H.H. and Kenneth B. Pyle Associate Professor in American Foreign Policy. He is also a Non-Resident Fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and a Contributing Editor at Jacobin. In 2019-2020, he served as a foreign policy advisor to Bernie Sanders’ presidential campaign.
Daniel is an intellectual historian of U.S. foreign relations. He is the author of Democracy in Exile: Hans Speier and the Rise of the Defense Intellectual (Cornell, 2018), which you may order here.
He is also co-editor, with Nicolas Guilhot, of The Decisionist Imagination: Sovereignty, Social Science, and Democracy in the Twentieth Century (Berghahn, 2019).
Daniel has published scholarly articles in several journals and has also published pieces in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian, n+1, and other venues.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Kat Armas - Abuelita Faith
Kat Armas joins the conversation to discuss her recently released book from Baker Publishing, Abuelita Faith. We talk about Liberation theology, Womanist theology and the need for the church to hear from the women who have lived out their faith and theology amongst us in the past. Kat is also an excellent example of a woman engaged in all aspects of theological work and we'll be hearing from her for years to come.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Lauren Turek - Evangelical Foreign Policy
Dr. Lauren Turek, associate professor of history at Trinity University, joins to discuss her 2020 book To Bring the Good News to All Nations: Evangelical Influence of Human Rights and U.S. Foreign Relations. Our conversation ranges from US Cold War policy (and why, oh why Evangelicals lobbied against peace/détente in the face of nuclear catastrophe) to examining a half century of religious cheerleading on behalf of authoritarian leaders and reliable support for regime change.
In this episode you'll also get to hear Casey misidentify leaders of Central American nations...partially because there are far too many US-backed coups supported by Evangelicals to keep track of, and partially because...let's be honest, Casey doesn't know everything!
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Ryan Cagle - Jubilee House, building a rural leftist Alabama
Ryan Cagle, pastor, spiritual director and founding organizer of Jubilee House in Walker County, Alabama, joins Casey this week. Ryan tells us about mutual aid efforts deep in the rural South and what it means to build solidarity among our neighbors regardless of political affiliation. Our conversation is yet another effort on Public Theologians to give some dimension to the flattened narrative of the backwards and racist South. Yeah, we've got problems, but as Ryan points out, "the ground is fertile."
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Music: Orbach
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Phil Nellis - Sabbath, rest and Abraham Heschel
Rebroadcast of last year's Thanksgiving episode with Phil Nellis. We talk Abraham Heschel, Eugene Peterson, the necessity of tending to our souls, slowing down and leaning into the rhythms that Sabbath offers.
This is our last broadcast of 2021! We've got some great guests lined up for 2022! In the meantime, wander back through our old shows, check out some other great Christian leftist podcasts (Magnificast, Faith & Capital and The Liberation Theology Podcast are a few good ones!) or...just...rest.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Samuel Perry and Andrew Whitehead - Taking America Back for God
Dr.s Samuel Perry and Andrew Whitehead join the conversation to discuss their research on Christian nationalism. Is Christian nationalism synonymous with white Evangelicalism? What is the difference between civil religion and Christian nationalism? Why does anybody listen to David Barton?
Also we get into questions of power. Who benefits from Christian nationalism? How do issues like gun rights and the sacralization of the constitution preserve power?
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Music: Orbach
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Stolen Elections: Two Can Play this Game - From caseyhobbs.substack.com
Casey reads from/promotes his substack post "Stolen elections: two can play this game."
Back to normal programming next week!
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Music: Orbach
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Kristy Nabhan-Warren - Meatpacking America 2
Dr. Kristy Nabhan-Warren discusses her new book Meatpacking America in part two of our two-part series. This book deals with the decline of rural (largely white) Catholic parishes consisting primarily of farmers and the influx of immigrants from Central and South America, Congo and Indonesia among other nationalities. The story chronicles Catholic priest's efforts to unite these communities as well as the conditions of new immigrants working in the meatpacking industry.
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Music: Orbach
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Kristy Nabhan-Warren - Meat Packing America Part 1
Dr. Kristy Nabhan-Warren discusses her new book Meatpacking America in part one of our two-part series. This book deals with the decline of rural (largely white) Catholic parishes consisting primarily of farmers and the influx of immigrants from Central and South America, Congo and Indonesia among other nationalities. The story chronicles Catholic priest's efforts to unite these communities as well as the conditions of new immigrants working in the meatpacking industry.
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Robert P. Jones - White Too Long
Dr. Robert P. Jones joins the podcast this week to discuss his book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity. We discuss the overtly racist religious settings of 18th century Christianity all the way up to the current day. We discuss monuments, felt racism versus material racism.
Finally we talk about how the history of the white church's racism has disfigured our soul and what it would mean for white American Christians to embrace honesty, repentance and return to the human family.
Check out the Public Religion Research Institute
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Obery Hendricks - Political Docetism in the Leadup to the Iraq War
Dr. Obery Hendricks Jr. joins Casey for a second episode. This time around we discuss the leadup to the War in Iraq, beginning in 2003. Public leaders of the evangelical church...didn't have much to say about it at the time and haven't said much about it since. We dig into the details of Bush's lies, and the political docetism that allows theological abdication of prophetic responsibilities.
We also talk about what it would mean for the church (and particularly her leaders) to begin to take the political nature of Jesus' ministry seriously again.
Order Christians Against Christianity
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Biko Mandela Gray - Black Lives Matter in/of Religion
Dr. Biko Mandela Gray, Assistant Professor of Religion, African American Religion and Women's and Gender Studies at Syracuse University joins us for the second part of our two-part conversation. This time around we discuss his essay Religion in/and Black Lives Matter: Celebrating the impossible.
Stay tuned to the end to hear Casey's first explicit question about theology as well as his butchering of Latin phrases. Enjoy the conversation and share with a friend or two!!
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Dr. Gray’s work operates at the nexus and interplay between continental philosophy of religion and theories and methods in African American religion. His research is primarily on the connection between race, subjectivity, religion, and embodiment, exploring how these four categories play on one another in the concrete space of human experience. He also is interested in the religious implications of social justice movements. He is currently working on a book project that explores how contemporary racial justice movements, like Blacklivesmatter, demonstrate new ways of theorizing the connection between embodiment, religion, and subjectivity.
Order Goodness and the Literary Imagination
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Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Biko Mandela Gray - Unexamined Goodness
Dr. Biko Mandela Gray, Assistant Professor of Religion, African American Religion and Women's and Gender Studies at Syracuse University joins the conversation to discuss his contribution on is essay discussing Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye in Goodness and the Literary Imagination. This one goes deep and moves quick. We talk about how taking our understanding of goodness for granted can result in unintended (but very real) harm.
Digressions include Kente cloth, both good and terrible recommendations on theodicy and why Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos' version of virtue signaling is morally bankrupt.
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Dr. Gray’s work operates at the nexus and interplay between continental philosophy of religion and theories and methods in African American religion. His research is primarily on the connection between race, subjectivity, religion, and embodiment, exploring how these four categories play on one another in the concrete space of human experience. He also is interested in the religious implications of social justice movements. He is currently working on a book project that explores how contemporary racial justice movements, like Blacklivesmatter, demonstrate new ways of theorizing the connection between embodiment, religion, and subjectivity.
Order Goodness and the Literary Imagination
Support us on Patreon and win a book!
Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Danté Stewart - Shoutin' in the Fire
Danté Stewart joins the conversation this week to discuss his forthcoming book Shoutin' in the Fire: An American Epistle. We discuss his experience growing up as a young Black man in white evangelical spaces, what it cost him and what it meant for him to lean in to his roots. Danté discusses the ways Black theologians from James Cone to Toni Morrison to James Baldwin brought him back to loving and embracing his own blackness in a world views him as a threat.
This very personal conversation includes Casey's and Danté's paean to their wives and features the cooing of Danté's youngest (Casey's small children take the week off from their cameo roles).
Order Danté's book Shoutin' in the Fire: An American Epistle
All Season 2: Review the Show and Win a Book from our Previous Guests!
Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Brian Stiltner - War on Afghanistan and How Christians Can Help Avoid the Next Immoral Invasion
Dr. Brian Stiltner joins Casey to discuss the long-awaited end to the War in (or was it on) Afghanistan and how the outrage of 9/11 was manufactured into a willingness to exact revenge on an enemy that had almost nothing to do with the fall of the Twin Towers. We discuss the changing mission that kept us there for 20 years as well as the moral bankruptcy of nation building.
Most importantly, we have a frank conversation about how Christians in particular might be instrumental in stopping the next forever war from getting started in the first place.
Dr. Brian Stiltner is Professor of Theology and Religious Studies at Sacred Heart University, where he is also co-director of the Hersher Institute for Applied Ethics. Dr. Stiltner is the author of a number of books including Faith and Force: A Christian Debate About War with David Clough.
Mentioned in this episode
Anne Applebaum: Liberal Democracy is Worth a Fight
Adam Nossiter: America's Afghan War: A Defeat Foretold?
Bush Won't Bargain for Bin Laden
All Season 2: Review the Show and Win a Book from our Previous Guests!
Music: Orbach
Art: Phil Nellis
Swift Justice - Protest for Solidarity with Kinetic Justice
Action Alert! On Wednesday, September 1st 2021 there will be a protest outside the Montgomery statehouse to make a statement in solidarity with Kinetic Justice, who is on a hunger strike in an Alabama prison.
His comrade, Swift Justice joins us for a second time, along with Nicky from FAM ARM Queen Team to discuss the conditions that sparked Kinetic's hunger strike and the show of solidarity requested.
More information on the conditions and the protest
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Anthea Butler - White Evangelical Racism
Dr. Anthea Bulter joins the conversation to discuss her latest book White Evangelical Racism: The Politics of Morality in America. Our discussion includes the connections of proto-Evangelicals's theology and lynching, what it means to hide behind theological ideology and why Donald Trump's election was not out of character for religious Americans.
Casey and Dr. Bulter also discuss the connections between Billy Graham's anti-communism and Evangelical push-back to civil rights and collective guilt that still goes on today (c.f. CRT, White Fragility discussion) and we explore the racist backlash to Barack Obama. But don't worry, we also discuss what it signaled when candidate Obama threw Rev. Jeremiah Wright under the bus and betrayed the Black church in the process.
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This is also the final episode of season 1 of Public Theologians. It's been a blast and we'll be back with some amazing guests in September!
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Anthea Butler is professor of religion at the University of Pennsylvania and the author of Women in the Church of God in Christ: Making a Sanctified World. A leading historian and public commentator on religion and politics, Butler has appeared on networks including CNN, BBC, and MSNBC and has published opinion pieces in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and many other media outlets.
Order White Evangelical Racism
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Mentioned in this Episode:
Candidate Barack Obama's denunciation of Rev. Wright 3/18/2008
Rev. Jeremiah Wright's "God damn America" sermon on 9/16/2001
The Southern Rite of Human Sacrifice by Don Matthews
Casey's reflection on Kelly Gissendaner's execution from 2015
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Eric Hall - Putting People First
Eric Hall is running for the District 9 City Council seat in Birmingham, AL. A minister, co-founder of BLM Birmingham and co-chair of Our Revolution Birmingham, Eric has worked as a community organizer with a laser-focus on ending poverty, reimagining policing and working for a better future for Birmingham.
In this conversation we get into Eric's background, what motivated him to run for this seat, how his own faith background animates his work and more!
Eric Hall for City Council D9 Birmingham, AL
Eric Hall bio in Birmingham Times
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Sheila Gregoire - The Great Sex Rescue
Sheila Gregoire, firebrand marriage and sexuality author, researcher and blogger, discusses her latest book The Great Sex Rescue. Based on extensive surveys with 20,000 women the book explores the causes of the 47% orgasm gap between men and women. Sheila and her team analyzed the messages of best selling Evangelical books on marriage and sexuality, to dig down into the harmful effects of hearing and believing nonsense like Every Man's Battle and Love and Respect in the lives.
Along the way Sheila discusses the need for Christian teaching to center around men figuring out what the clitoris is and Casey asks Sheila how it became common to sanctify being an asshole, we discuss much better resources for understanding sexuality and marriage and how the Evangelical obsession with static gender roles protects those with power....because every conversation has both political and theological consequences, particularly when we talk about sex!
https://tolovehonorandvacuum.com/
https://twitter.com/sheilagregoire
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Colleen Shaddox and Joanne Samuel Goldblum - Broke in America
Joanne Samuel Goldblum and Colleen Shaddox, the authors of Broke in America (Ben Bella Books, 2021), join Casey for a discussion on their work, the state of poverty in America and the fact that poverty is a policy choice. We get into such topics as privatization of basic human needs, school zoning and whether the Biden administration is doing anything notable to combat poverty on a national scale.
Both authors share how they came to this work as well as the faith traditions (Jewish and Catholic) that brought them to care for the poor in a material way.
We also discuss what it truly means to be on the side of the poor and marginalized (hint: it has much more to do with material restructuring than it does performative gesticulations or interpersonal anti-racist measures) and the fact that Barbara Lee is the real deal (for just one proof of this fact, watch this video right after 9/11, when she stands alone in the House of Representatives - not even Bernie got this one right - and defends her sole vote against Bush's AUMF)!
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Joanne Goldblum is CEO and founder of the National Diaper Bank Network, encompassing more than 200 member organizations that provide diapers and other basic needs to families across America. In 2018, she founded the Alliance for Period Supplies, which provides free hygiene products to the one in four people for whom menstruation means difficulty attending school and work. Joanne has spent her career working with and advocating for families in poverty. She has written op-eds for The Washington Post, US News & World Report, and HuffPost. She has been an ABC Person of the Week and the subject of profiles by CNN, People, and many other outlets. Joanne is an inspiring and in-demand speaker. In 2007 she was chosen as one of 10 Robert Wood Johnson Community Health Leaders on the basis of her work to found the New Haven Diaper Bank.
Colleen Shaddox is a print and radio journalist and activist. Her publication credits include The New York Times, The Washington Post, National Public Radio, America, and many more. She left daily newspapers when an editor reprimanded her for “writing too many stories about poor people” and went to work in a soup kitchen. She has had one foot in journalism and one in non-profits ever since. In states throughout the country, Colleen has worked on winning campaigns to get kids out of adult prisons, to end juvenile life without parole and to limit shackling in juvenile courts. She is a frequently anthologized fiction writer. Her award-winning play, The Shakespeares, and other dramatic works have been performed around the country.
Chris Nelson - Alabama Prison Oppostion
Chris Nelson joins Casey for a second time. Chris found out that a private mega-prison was set to be built right around the corner from his childhood home and he got busy hounding small-town Alabama council meetings,, canvassing neighborhoods and spending every spare moment fighting against the state and corporate powers that be. Thanks to Chris' efforts and that of numerous other activists and community groups, popular sentiment forced large banks to pull out of this insanely immoral investment opportunity.
Chris shares valuable lessons learned, what to look out for in the next (zombie) phase of Gov. Kay Ivey's mega-prison plan and the unglamorous work of showing up where injustice is being done. While this focuses on super-local Alabama politics Chris' story highlights the need for all of us to bring what we have to the fight for justice.
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Mentioned:
https://www.alreporter.com/2021/06/16/gov-kay-ivey-talks-prisons-gaming-and-end-to-unemployment-aid/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8WD75-qjquGCpAHlm72PzA/featured