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The GoodLion Podcast

The GoodLion Podcast

By Aaron Salvato & Brian Higgins

Aaron Salvato and Brian Higgins are here to talk about Jesus, faith, and the Christian Life. A show filled with powerful interviews, fascinating theological deep-dives, and a never ending stream of questions, there’s always something to discover on The Good Lion Podcast.

Check out the other great shows on the GoodLion network at
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Currently playing episode

The Mechanics of Salvation - With Dr. Gerry Breshears

The GoodLion PodcastOct 05, 2019

Answering Questions From Pastors About Doubt & Deconstruction - (with Johnny Zacchio)
Dec 04, 202333:30
Doubt & Deconstruction: Ministering to the Next Generation with Compassion and Grace (Nick Cady & Aaron Salvato)

Doubt & Deconstruction: Ministering to the Next Generation with Compassion and Grace (Nick Cady & Aaron Salvato)

Hey folks, I am super excited to share with you the full audio of a workshop that Nick Cady and I put together for CGN. In this workshop, we dive deep into the topic of doubt and deconstruction.

The goal of this workshop is to help Christians and ministry leaders understand this issue from an informed, compassionate, and measured perspective. The reality is a lot of people are struggling, and we need to work hard to understand the why.

(Note: To anyone who follows me who is not a Christian, or is a former Christian who has now deconstructed, please understand you’re not the target audience for this, but if you watch my hope Is that you’d see the heart in trying to help people understand so they can help! Feel free to DM me if it sparks anything you’d want to discuss. I’m always open.)

We understand that doubt is a common experience and can be challenging to navigate, especially when it comes to ministering to the next generation. In this workshop, we aim to provide insights and practical strategies to help ministry leaders engage with and support individuals going through doubt and deconstruction.

Here are some of the key points we will cover:

1. The personal significance of doubt: We both share our own experiences of doubt and how it led us to deeper exploration and growth.

2. Understanding the next generation: We explore the unique challenges young people face today and how doubt and deconstruction often play a significant role in their faith journey.

3. The impact of doubt on ministry: We discuss the heartbreak and challenges that ministry leaders face when helping individuals navigate doubt and provide guidance on how to address their questions and concerns.

4. The process of doubt and deconstruction: We unpack the definitions of doubt and deconstruction, highlighting the different stages and dynamics involved, and explore why understanding their origins is essential.

5. Practical application for helping those who struggle with doubt and deconstruction navigate these complex waters.

We sincerely hope this workshop blesses you and enriches your ministry! If you have any feedback, you can leave us comments on the episode on Spotify, or send us an email at

Nov 27, 202301:20:53
Serve Like Jesus

Serve Like Jesus

🎙️ Welcome to the latest episode of our podcast, where our host, Aaron Salvato, digs deep into the heart of servanthood, inspired by the incredible actions of Jesus himself. As a powerful sermon Aaron shared at the Good Lion School of Discipleship, this episode guides us through the transformative power of humility and service.

This is not about grand gestures, but about the beautiful, small, everyday acts of service that can profoundly change our lives and the lives of those around us.

👣 As we delve into the teachings of Jesus, we find that service is about embracing humility and demonstrating love. In the quiet, unseen moments of everyday life, we have the opportunity to shine a light, serve others, and embody the teachings of Jesus.

🙏 Wrapping up the episode, we'll leave you with practical wisdom on how to weave these lessons into your daily life. You'll be challenged to embrace the paradox of power found in servanthood and walk the transformative journey of humble service, just like Jesus did.

Topics Covered:

1️⃣ The Power of Servanthood 🙌

2️⃣ Jesus Took the Lowest Job 👣

3️⃣ Jesus Did What No One Expected Him to Do 🙏

4️⃣ Transformation Through Servanthood and Humility 🦋

5️⃣ The Power of Serving Others 💪

6️⃣ Serving Jesus in Everyday Life 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦

7️⃣ Serving Jesus in the Home 🏠

8️⃣ Serving Jesus at Work 💼

9️⃣ Showing Christ's Love to Coworkers 💗

🔟 Engaging with Culture 🌎
Nov 13, 202301:00:58
Exploring The Major Views On Eschatology - Nick Cady

Exploring The Major Views On Eschatology - Nick Cady

Aaron is joined by his long time friend Nick Cady, to dive deep into the fascinating theological topic of eschatology.

Eschatology is a topic that often leaves many Christians feeling confused and overwhelmed. With its complexities and differing perspectives, it's no wonder why this subject can sometimes seem daunting to navigate. Nick aims to provide clarity and understanding by delving into the various views and shedding light on the intricacies of eschatology.

Together, Nick and Aaron will explore the four main views of eschatology, shedding light on the differences and similarities between them. They will also delve into the role of Israel in eschatology and discuss the nuanced differenced between the perspectives of the pre-millennial view and the dispensationalist view. The conversation will also touch on how our eschatology can impact our ethical beliefs and shape our Christian identity, ministry, and practice.

Whether you've found yourself pondering eschatological differences, or grappling with the role of Israel in end times beliefs, this episode is here to help. Nick comes from the pre-mil perspective himself, but is respectful towards all the main views. This conversation will help guide you through the maze of eschatological theories in a balanced and gracious way, unraveling the confusion and offering insights that will empower you to develop a well-informed perspective on this significant theological topic.

Topics Covered:
🌍 Exploring the four main views of eschatology.
🔮 Understanding the role of Israel in eschatological beliefs.
⏰ Contrasting the pre-millennial view and the dispensationalist view.
🤔 Examining the relationship between eschatology and ethics.
💡 How our eschatology shapes our Christian identity, ministry, and practice.

Oct 30, 202301:22:46
Returning To The King - Do you see Him merely as Savior... or as Lord? | Brian Higgins & Aaron Salvato

Returning To The King - Do you see Him merely as Savior... or as Lord? | Brian Higgins & Aaron Salvato

As followers of Jesus, we often begin our journey with a fairly simplistic view of who He is - a divine savior who absolves us of our sins and provides a comforting presence in our lives. But as our faith deepens, we start to realize that there's so much more to Him.

In this episode Aaron and Brian dive into the transformational journey of understanding Jesus beyond the role of Savior and embracing Him as Lord. Drawing from their personal experiences and the lessons they've learned over the years, they invite you to explore the possibility of reacquainting yourself with Jesus, particularly during changing circumstances, and deepening your relationship with Him.

This episode will take you on a journey from seeing Jesus merely as a problem solver to recognizing Him as a King fighting for His kingdom. The true path is a life centered around His mission, not just your own.

Through their candid conversation, Aaron and Brian aim to help you see Jesus as a generous King, leading us to live lives of service and community, and not just as a figure of divine intervention during our struggles.

If you've been feeling disconnected from Jesus, this episode is a reminder that He's not just your personal Savior, but a King whose mission should be at the center of our lives. We hope this episode helps you strengthen your divine bond and help you see Jesus in a new light!

Topics covered:

📖 The ways people who grow up in the Church view Jesus.

👑 The Power of Understanding Jesus as King

🔗 Reconnecting With Jesus Amid Changing Circumstances

💫 The Transformational Journey of Understanding Jesus Beyond Problem Solving

🙏 Practical Steps to Connect With Jesus

📚 🗺️ A Roadmap for Connection with God / Insights from Scripture

💒 Building a Relationship with Jesus akin to a Marriage

🌟 The Importance of Continuous Self-Reminders of the Gospel

👥 The Role of Community in our Faith Journey
Oct 23, 202344:13
Re-Centering on Jesus: Purpose, Hope, and Regaining Childlike Wonder | Brian Higgins & Aaron Salvato

Re-Centering on Jesus: Purpose, Hope, and Regaining Childlike Wonder | Brian Higgins & Aaron Salvato

In this episode, Brian and Aaron reunite after a long time off from recording together. The two friends help each other rekindle their fervor for Jesus and share their journey with the listeners. Amidst the bustle of their lives, which includes navigating changes in their careers, evolving responsibilities in parenthood, and returning to local ministry work, they delve into the question of how to maintain a genuine connection with Jesus. They reflect on their experiences, the transformations they've undergone, and how their faith has played a crucial role in all these.

Throughout the episode, they discuss the challenge so many people in ministry face: keeping your eyes fixed on Christ in the middle of creating weekly church services, crafting meaningful content, and the pitfalls of being a 'professional Christian.'

They also examine the transformative power of the Gospel and the importance of reminding ourselves of it regularly. As they share their experiences, they underscore the role of Jesus in guiding us through life's challenges and inviting us into deeper relationships and responsibilities. They also share about how easy it is to lose your childlike sense of faith/wonder, and how Jesus calls us to reclaim it. This episode is aimed to help listeners reconnect with Jesus, to serve as a reminder of His teachings, and to inspire them to keep their faith strong in the face of life's changes.

Tune in for a heartfelt chat about faith, change, and navigating life with Jesus at the center. Topics Covered:  🙏 Maintaining Connection with Jesus amidst Life's Changes  💡Adapting to Change: A Discourse on Faith and Responsibility  🤖Will we be replaced by AI robots!? 🎙️The Pressure of Creating Weekly Church Services  📖 The Transformative Power of the Gospel  🤱Parenthood and Faith  🎈Regaining Childlike Wonder in Faith

Oct 16, 202359:26
Progressive Dispensationalism, Eschatology Reimagined - With Dr. Darrell Bock

Progressive Dispensationalism, Eschatology Reimagined - With Dr. Darrell Bock

Welcome, theology nerds and seekers! On this season 9 finale, we're diving deep into the world of dispensationalism. Whether you're a seasoned theologian or a fresh-faced learner, we've got something for you! Our guests are Mike Dente, Senior Pastor of Calvary Chapel Paris, France, and Professor Darrell Bock from Dallas Theological Seminary. We discuss everything from the distinctions between Israel and ethnic Israel, the Church, and political Israel, to progressive and traditional dispensationalism. We're unraveling the complex tapestry of God's divine program, one thread at a time. We dive into the pivotal covenants God has made, and seek to understand how these manage His divine program. We also discuss the interplay between covenantal theology and dispensationalism, and what this means for our understanding of the Bible's multi-dimensional nature. We also explore the complexities of identifying God's people (is it Israel, or the Church?), examine the reconciliation of one people of God, and discuss the mission of redemption for Jews and Gentiles alike. We also address the relevance of prophecy update church services… Yes, we're going there! We dig into the ethical implications of judgment and rapture in the dispensationalism context, offering insights on compassionate interpretation and the importance of living out your faith. Plus, we discuss the potential dangers of viewing those who do not share our faith as enemies rather than a mission field. In the second half of the episode, we ask Dr. Bock to engage with an article by Scot McKnight, as well as the teachings of NT Wright. You definitely don't want to miss this! Chapters  (00:00:00) - Intro: What is Progressive Dispensationalism?  (00:09:35) - Exploring Covenantal and Dispensational Theology  (00:25:36) - Who are God's People?  (00:38:04) - Newspaper Theology & Prophecy Updates: Helpful, or Harmful?  (00:48:22) - Is the Amillennial View a Theologically Liberal Interpretation?  (00:57:50) - Engaging with Scott McKnight: "The Late Great Dispensationalism?"  (01:16:05) - N.T. Wright and Inaugurated Eschatology (01:23:36) - Common Grace and Cultural Engagement for the Dispensationalist
Jul 31, 202301:37:38
Why Does Yahweh Seem So Angry in the Old Testament? - (GoodLion Classic Episode)

Why Does Yahweh Seem So Angry in the Old Testament? - (GoodLion Classic Episode)

This week we're thrilled to revisit an important conversation with one of our longest-running and most cherished guests, Dr. Gerry Breshears.
Gerry, a beloved Seminary Professor and mentor to many, joins us again to wrestle with the difficult but essential topic of God's judgment and wrath. Our listeners know this is a subject close to Aaron and Brian's hearts, and Gerry provides his gracious yet challenging insights.
We examine how God's wrath in the Old Testament fits with His love in the New. We also look at Greg Boyd's cruciform hermeneutic, and Gerry helps us consider whether this is a helpful interpretive framework or if it raises concerns.
As always, Gerry's wisdom, humility and grace permeate the discussion as he guides our GoodLion community through these complex issues.
Whether you're wrestling with these hard questions for the first time or looking for a fresh perspective, this classic conversation with one of our longtime favorites is bound to stretch, encourage and inform.
Join us for another profound and provocative episode that aims to renew and reshape the way we see God.

Jul 10, 202301:24:36
Jesus' Death: Failure or Victory? - (Classic GoodLion Episode)

Jesus' Death: Failure or Victory? - (Classic GoodLion Episode)

For this special classic episode, Aaron delves deeply into a provocative claim made on NPR's This American Life. In a conversation with host Ira Glass, Princeton historian Elaine Pagels argues that Jesus's death on the cross was an "utter failure." This piques Aaron's curiosity. He decides to explore the topic further, questioning leading scholars and theologians about whether Jesus's crucifixion really was a failure as Pagels suggests. Aaron brings on apologist Thomas Fretwell and his friend Wavey Cowper to share revelatory insights and historical context. They examine what Jesus and his earliest followers truly understood about his death on the cross. Was Jesus's crucifixion the Roman Empire successfully squashing a would-be revolution? Or was it the enactment of God's eternal plan of salvation for humanity? Join Aaron and his friends as they pick at Pagels' thesis - and explores the far-reaching implications of Jesus willingly enduring the ultimate human failure, in order to achieve the ultimate divine victory. Through thoughtful discussion, historical evidence and theological reflection, they aim to provide you with a fresh perspective on the death and resurrection of Christ.

Jul 03, 202327:35
Getting Honest About Depression and the Christian Church - With Wesley Towne (Classic GoodLion Episode)

Getting Honest About Depression and the Christian Church - With Wesley Towne (Classic GoodLion Episode)

Join Aaron and Brian as they tackle one of the hardest topics facing Christians and the church today: depression. In this honest and illuminating episode, they sit down with pastor Wesley Towne who has spent years ministering to those struggling with mental illness.

This episode was recorded shortly after the tragic loss of Pastor Jared Wilson, bringing the topics of depression and struggle into sharp focus. Wesley shares openly about his own journey, helping remove some of the stigma that prevents many Christians from facing mental health issues.

Aaron, Brian and Wesley tackle some tough questions with compassion: What does depression really look like for believers? How has the church both helped and hindered those struggling? And ultimately, what hope can we find in Jesus for those in the midst of these battles?

This episode pulls no punches, offering wisdom and insight from someone who has walked this path. We pray Wesley's transparency and perspective provides both comfort and challenge - reminding us that in sharing our struggles, we find the healing we seek in community.

Join us for this honest encounter with a subject that affects so many.

Jun 26, 202301:20:26
A Raw Conversation On Sex Scenes, Christians, and Media - (GoodLion Classic Episode)

A Raw Conversation On Sex Scenes, Christians, and Media - (GoodLion Classic Episode)

Welcome to a classic two-part episode of The GoodLion Podcast! It's a marathon not a sprint as Brian and Aaron dive into the complex issue of violence, sex and nudity in media.

The popular show Game of Thrones sparked many conversations about how Christians should consume media with sex scenes. These episodes, recorded in 2019, tackle that debate head on with nuance, depth and understanding.

Brian and Aaron explore whether Christians should watch sex scenes and potential impacts on the soul. They discuss the complex factors at play, from Biblical principles to practical effects on one's heart and mind.

While some argued for a simple "yes it's sin" approach, our hosts Brian and Aaron believe complex issues deserve complex conversations. These episodes mark a turning point in the show where Aaron and Brian found their groove as co-hosts, leaning into the heart of The GoodLion mission – seeking answers to complicated issues while avoiding simplistic responses. As Aaron points out, one of our guiding mantras has always been "no easy answers," drawing us to dive deep and point listeners to the God who is not safe, but who is very good.

We hope these classic episodes spark meaningful discussion and thought-provoking reflection as you wrestle with how to engage media in a way that honors God and your conscience. Brian and Aaron hope these episodes speak to you, challenge you and ultimately point you to how to follow Christ well in our postmodern culture.

Jun 19, 202301:46:43
Shame, Sin, & What Tim Mackie Taught Us About Righteousness - (Classic GoodLion Episode)

Shame, Sin, & What Tim Mackie Taught Us About Righteousness - (Classic GoodLion Episode)

Aaron and Brian welcome you to revisit two early episodes from Season 1 that set out to deeply explore the meaning and importance of righteousness. These episodes were part of their initial ‘Righteousness’ mini-series where they sought to understand what righteousness truly means and how it should impact the lives of Jesus followers.

In Part 1, Aaron shares his reflections on righteousness and clips from Dr. Tim Mackie of the Bible Project that shed new light on its original Hebrew meaning. Hearing Tim's insights was a major revelation for Aaron that changed how he understood the concept.

In Part 2, Brian and Aaron are joined by pastor Bryan Stupar for a thought-provoking conversation about righteousness and how it relates to struggle with guilt and shame. They examine Jesus' interaction with the woman caught in adultery, seeking to apply the lessons to our own lives. Aaron also recounts a personal story that helped righteousness come alive for him in a fresh way.

Though the audio quality may not match their current podcast standards, Aaron believes the content remains powerfully relevant for listeners today.

So join Aaron and Brian on this nostalgic journey back to the first season of the GoodLion podcast as they explore two defining episodes in their quest to understand the true meaning of righteousness!

Jun 12, 202301:10:26
GoodLion Update: School of Discipleship Ministry Reports, Great Things in Store for the Podcast, & an Update on Aaron's Seminary Journey

GoodLion Update: School of Discipleship Ministry Reports, Great Things in Store for the Podcast, & an Update on Aaron's Seminary Journey

In the season finale of Season 9 of the GoodLion podcast, we take a moment to appreciate the incredible journey we've been on, and share with you some awesome news. As we dive behind the scenes, we express our heartfelt gratitude to our steadfast listeners, both old and new, for accompanying us on this spiritual path.

A Ministry Update:

First, a ministry field report: we're thrilled to announce that GoodLion Ministries has been expanding its reach with the establishment of the GoodLion School of Discipleship in Yukon, Oklahoma. This new venture is a multi-church ministry effort where young adults can immerse themselves in the study of theology, discipleship, and the teachings of Jesus. This progression from a podcast to a local community has been welcomed with overwhelming love and support, and we're just getting started!

As we look back on a fruitful first semester and look ahead to the next, we invite you to join us on this educational journey by visiting, where you can check out what we are doing and support our mission.

A Summer Break, Classic Episodes, and Higgins Returns for Season 10:

We will be taking a break for June and July, but In our efforts to consistently deliver meaningful content, during the break we'll be dusting off and re-sharing some of our best episodes from the early seasons that you may have missed. In addition, we're delighted to share that Brian Higgins, our much-loved co-host, has been helping us record more episodes for next season. His presence has always been crucial to the podcast, and we can't wait to have him back around.
If theology piques your interest, next season we've already recorded some engaging episodes on eschatology featuring the renowned professor Darrell Bock, as well as friend of the show Nick Cady. We're also looking forward to incorporating lessons from the GoodLion School of Discipleship into our podcast.

Personal Note and Request from Aaron:

Friends, as we wrap up this season, I come to you with a personal appeal. After much prayer and consideration, I've decided to pursue a Master's Degree in Applied Biblical Leadership under the mentorship of Professor Gary Breshears at Western Seminary. This journey means a lot to me, yet it has presented some financial obstacles. I've always tried my best to support myself as much as possible through working with my hands and mind, but recently I lost my main side client that was helping me pay for Seminary tuition.

In light of this, I am humbly reaching out for your assistance to make this vision a reality. If you feel led, contributions can be made at All donations will directly support my seminary payments.

I have no expectations of anyone other than Christ. I am simply just throwing out an ask and seeing if the Lord speaks to anyone about helping. I fully trust He will provide in whatever what He chooses, and I would ask that if you don't feel led to help, please just keep me in prayer that the Lord would lead, guide, and provide!

Thanks for reading, praying, and listening. Love you all and excited for next season!
Jun 06, 202319:49
Learning From Jesus: The Wisdom Warrior (Michael Bowles)

Learning From Jesus: The Wisdom Warrior (Michael Bowles)

Michael Bowles returns with fresh insight on the ancient motif of the wisdom warrior. As Aaron and Michael discuss, Michael traces the wisdom warrior path embodied by exilic prophets like Jeremiah and Daniel who navigated Babylonian captivity through wisdom above violence. Michael reveals how Jesus, the ultimate Wisdom Warrior, defeated Satan through the weapon of truth and the victory of the cross.

Aaron and Michael discuss how seeking wisdom instead of vengeance transforms how we engage cultural conflict. They reflect on how Jesus deployed logic, reason, humility and surrender rather than force as core tactics of His nonviolent resistance. Michael reveals how wisdom warriors combat injustice through yielding fully to God's peace.

Learn to cultivate wisdom in daily life from the original Wisdom Warrior, Jesus. Michael teaches us wisdom warrior tactics: be calm in conflict, seek to end fights before they start, return good for evil and appear weak yet remain protected by God.

Thought we wrestle with how to fight today's battles... Jesus' shows us His weapon of peace rather than a spirit of vengeance. Michael shows how daily wisdom begins with surrendering to God's alternative path of Shalom through the cross of Christ.

Jesus, the true Wisdom Warrior, calls us to lay down our swords and take up His weapon of wisdom to make peace.

Enter the realm of the wisdom warrior on this thought-provoking conversation with guest Michael Bowles as he traces the motif from Old Testament types to its fulfillment in the ultimate Wisdom Warrior, Jesus Christ.


Michael is a California transplant living in the Pacific Northwest with his wife Lauren, their son Cove, and daughter Cambria. Prior to the move, Michael served as a pastor in Los Angeles for seven years, working in various capacities including pioneering new faith communities and pastoring youth and young adults. Currently, he works for the gospel-centered transitional housing provider ABSOLUTE Ministries and serves on the worship and teaching teams at Stone Church Auburn.

Michael is also a fellow thinker at Western Seminary in Portland and runs a blog titled Along the Road, where he shares his theological reflections, biblical insights, and cultural commentary. He offers a perspective of a God who is FOR humans and the natural world, assuming the posture of a fellow traveler on the journey of life.

May 30, 202301:10:43
Battling Intrusive Thoughts (Aaron & Brian) - Strategies for the Christian to resist and overcome thoughts of doubt, discouragement, & fear and re-center on Christ.

Battling Intrusive Thoughts (Aaron & Brian) - Strategies for the Christian to resist and overcome thoughts of doubt, discouragement, & fear and re-center on Christ.

Struggling with Intrusive Thoughts and Doubts? You're not alone.

Most Christians experience doubt from time to time, but for some the struggle with intrusive thoughts that breed uncertainty can become all-consuming. In this episode, Aaron Salvato answers a question from listener who struggles with random sudden thoughts that cause them to question if their faith is real. Aaron shares his own experience with disruptive intrusive thoughts as a young teen and how he overcame them. He discusses how God sees those who doubt and affirms that grace is bigger than any issue of the mind.

Then, Join Aaron and Co-Host Brian Higgins as they tackle the thought intrusions that can erode our trust in spiritual truth. From reading Scripture and questioning long held beliefs to processing Christian behavior in culture, they uncover how to engage doubts wisely.

Brian shares from experience, urging listeners not to suppress their questions but courageously chase answers. "There are good resources out there," he notes. But the deepest antidote lies in experiencing Jesus in a personal way that transcends logical proofs.

Aaron articulates how doubts that lead us to truth can strengthen faith, while doubts pursued solely to alleviate uncertainty rarely satisfy. Jesus meets us where we are, inviting us higher. "Show me yourself in a way I cannot deny," Aaron encourages listeners to pray.

Tune in for this honest yet hopeful discussion of what it truly means to doubt your doubts in pursuit of the One who desires to reveal himself. Escape the echo chamber of your mind and find peace beyond the unending "why's" through the presence of God himself.

Does wisdom on wrestling with doubts sound like just what you need this week? Listen to this thought-provoking episode of the GoodLion podcast today.

Key takeaways include:
• Intrusive thoughts are a normal part of the human condition, but can be especially distressing for Christians.
• Doubt does not mean your faith is invalid; it can push you towards deeper understanding.
• You are not your thoughts; learn to let them come and go without getting trapped in them.
• Focus on God's unconditional love and mercy rather than your own mental struggles.

Listen in for empathy, wisdom and hope and reminds us that God sees beyond our doubts to the spirit within that seeks Him. This episode provides perspective and practical tools to help those wrestling with intrusive thoughts that breed discouragement in their faith journey.

May 22, 202341:15
Responding To Tough Pushback Around Christian Sexual Ethics | Pieter Valk - Pt 2: "Is Gay Sin Worse Than Straight Sin?" and More Challenging Questions From Pastors.

Responding To Tough Pushback Around Christian Sexual Ethics | Pieter Valk - Pt 2: "Is Gay Sin Worse Than Straight Sin?" and More Challenging Questions From Pastors.

This episode is the second part of an interview with Pieter Valk. In part one of the interview, Pieter laid out his heart and his vision for helping gay people follow Jesus and find love, support, and belonging within the church while adhering to the theological orthodoxy and commitment to the historic Christian sexual ethic of God's design for marriage and sex between one man and one woman.

In this episode, Pieter addresses some pushback and questions he has received, not just in general, but specifically from pastors and leaders. Pieter answers with truth, grace, and love.

Some of the topics covered in this episode include:

  • How does Pieter handle people being skeptical about his ministry because of his sexuality?
  • How does Pieter respond to pushback against the side B sexuality movement, which sometimes lionizes the gay identity and propping up gay Christians to almost a celebrity status?
  • Is gay sexual sin is worse than straight sexual sin?
  • Why does Pieter uses the term "gay Christian" at times, and what does he say to those who would say the term is misleading or stumbling?
  • How do we Model what it looks like for two ministry leaders to disagree on something in a way that's gracious and an example of iron sharpening iron?

Overall, the conversation is a phenomenal one! We really hope it blesses and encourages you as you follow Jesus and try to make an impact in the culture for His Kingdom.

May 08, 202356:38
Compassionate Sexual Orthodoxy - Pieter Valk Pt 1: Navigating Brokenness, Shame, and Helping LGBT People Turn To Jesus

Compassionate Sexual Orthodoxy - Pieter Valk Pt 1: Navigating Brokenness, Shame, and Helping LGBT People Turn To Jesus

Pieter Valk joins Aaron Salvato for a very intriguing conversation on sexuality. Pieter is a same-sex attracted Christian and ministry leader who is also committed to the historic Christian sexual ethic. This is a challenging path to walk, as it requires faithfulness and obedience to the teachings of Jesus around sexuality, often leading to a life of singleness and celibacy. In this episode, we will dive deep into Pieter's journey and discuss the complexities of his beliefs.

We will explore the theology of sexual temptation and how it relates to same-sex attraction. Pieter will share his personal experiences and offer practical wisdom on how we can love and support those who are struggling with this issue. We will dive deep into the topic of sexual brokenness and how it effects everyone, no matter their orientation. We will also answer a very challenging question: does God intend for people to experience same-sex attraction? This is a difficult and often controversial topic, but Pieter approaches it with compassion and grace.

Pieter's unique perspective challenges the modern narratives around LGBTQ issues and offers a fresh perspective. In this two-part series, we will discuss Pieter's ministry and his heart for the Church to create a more compassionate and faithful community pursuing orthodoxy and the Way of Jesus together, no matter what our sexual struggles are.

Apr 28, 202352:18
The Dangers of Theology Gone Wrong - (Dr. Gerry Breshears) - Disunity, Division, & Deconstruction

The Dangers of Theology Gone Wrong - (Dr. Gerry Breshears) - Disunity, Division, & Deconstruction

In part 2 of our short series on theology, Dr. Gerry Breshears (Western Seminary) helps us understand the dangers of theology gone wrong. Gerry is an amazing theological mind and a fan favorite of the show. In part one, we defined theology and talked about why it's essential for discipleship. In this episode, we'll discuss how theology can at times become an idol.

We'll start by asking a tough question: If all Christians have the Holy Spirit, why are there so many theological differences? We'll also explore how we can find unity in the midst of theological diversity and hear from Gerry about how God changed his heart to be more open to those who disagreed with him.

Gerry will share his insights on how to approach theology with humility, curiosity, and a willingness to learn from others. We'll also look at the dangers of theology gone wrong when it becomes a burden on the learner, leading to crises of faith, doubt, and deconstruction. Gerry will share his perspective on how we can help those who are struggling through doubt and deconstruction, and for those who want to study theology but feel overwhelmed, he'll provide some practical tips on how to approach theology with care and discernment.

So, join us as we deep dive into these tough questions and explore the dangers of theology gone wrong. If you haven't heard the previous episode, make sure to go back and listen to part one. Let's dive back in and pick up the conversation where it left off last time with Dr. Gerry Breshears.

Apr 19, 202342:48
WHY does theology matter for discipleship? (Dr. Gerry Breshears) - Defining Theology, Learning How it Helps us as Disciples, and Exploring How We Can Work Together... Even When We Disagree

WHY does theology matter for discipleship? (Dr. Gerry Breshears) - Defining Theology, Learning How it Helps us as Disciples, and Exploring How We Can Work Together... Even When We Disagree

In today's episode of The GoodLion Podcast, we're chatting about something super close to our hearts: what it means to be a disciple of Jesus and how theology shapes that journey. With the launch of our humble little ministry, the GoodLion School of Discipleship in Yukon, Oklahoma, we're passionate about fusing hands-on discipleship with some deep, thought-provoking theology. To that end, we've happy to have the amazing Professor Gerry Breshears from Western Seminary joining us for the first of two episodes to explore this fascinating topic!

We'll kick things off by getting down to the basics: like, what even is discipleship, and how does theology fit into the picture? Why should we even care about theology as disciples? Why is theology essential for a disciple's growth and understanding? We'll also tackle the potential pitfalls when theology is neglected in the discipleship process and discuss ways to prevent our own theological biases from hindering the way we disciple others.

One of the most challenging aspects of discipleship is working and serving alongside people with whom we have theological disagreements. Gerry shares his valuable insights on navigating this tricky terrain while maintaining unity and love for one another.

Join us for an enlightening conversation that will encourage listeners to reflect on their own discipleship journeys and appreciate the importance of integrating theology into their practical walk with Jesus. Don't miss this opportunity to grow in your understanding of what it means to be a disciple, embracing both the heart and the mind in your pursuit of Christ.

Apr 10, 202347:15
The Creativity Of The Minister - Riley Taylor | Exploring the God-given call to harness creativity for good.
Mar 30, 202301:16:36
The Theology of Heavenly Treasures | Materialism, Heart Locations, & Answering the Question "What did Jesus Mean by Store Up Treasures in Heaven?"

The Theology of Heavenly Treasures | Materialism, Heart Locations, & Answering the Question "What did Jesus Mean by Store Up Treasures in Heaven?"

In this episode, host Aaron Salvato dives deep into the theology of "Treasures in Heaven" as described by Jesus in his Sermon on the Mount. As Christians, it's easy to get caught up in the day-to-day demands of life and forget the deeper meanings behind Jesus' teachings. Aaron dives deep into the idea of heavenly treasures, explaining what they are, what they are not, and how we can pursue them.

To begin, Aaron delves into the definition of heavenly treasures. He points out that while the Bible can be difficult to understand at times, there are many concepts that we grow up hearing but may not fully grasp. He goes on to explain that when we think of treasures, we often imagine gold, jewels, and other material possessions. However, heavenly treasures are something entirely different.

Heavenly treasures are gained in the pursuit and practice of the things that matter most to God, such as the way we love and serve others, the way we obey God's commands, and the way we share the good news of Jesus with those around us. This pursuit is not about earning brownie points, but rather it is about affecting eternity and building the Kingdom of God.

The episode also delves into the heart conditions that lead us to pursue earthly treasures like success, wealth, fame, and popularity. We discuss how we can easily make idols out of our desires, and how these treasures can become our masters. By contrast, pursuing heavenly treasures involves redirecting our desires towards something that is life-giving and freeing. The episode concludes with a discussion of where our hearts are directed and how pursuing treasures in heaven ultimately leads us to a deeper relationship with Christ.

One of the most beautiful things about storing up treasures in heaven is that we can experience a taste of heaven right now. Rather than simply hoarding wealth and not touching it until some far-off distant future, we can experience the eternal riches of heaven right now if we abide in Christ through His Spirit. Aaron emphasizes that our treasures lead us somewhere, and that the most important aspect of the concept of treasures in Heaven is the idea that where our treasure is, our heart will be also.

To truly thrive, we must declare Jesus as the King of our hearts and redirect our desires towards the eternal.

Mar 23, 202326:28
How can we serve when we are busy and overwhelmed?

How can we serve when we are busy and overwhelmed?

In this episode, we answer a question from one of our students at the GoodLion school of discipleship on the topic of servanthood, which is an essential element of Christian discipleship. At the heart of servanthood is the concept of selflessness, which requires us to put the needs of others before our own. As followers of Christ, we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves, and love is the biggest motivator for serving others.

In today's world, we are constantly busy with various commitments and responsibilities, and it's easy to get caught up in our own needs and wants. However, we need to remember that as Christians, we are called to a different standard. We are called to seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

One of the biggest challenges of servanthood is finding the time to serve. We often feel like we are too busy to serve, and it requires other sacrifices just to make time for it. But the reality is that serving others is not just an obligation or duty, but it's an opportunity to participate in the work that God is doing in the world.

However, we must also be careful not to fall into the trap of chronic busyness or overload, where we feel overwhelmed by our commitments and responsibilities. This can lead to stress, burnout, fatigue, and other negative effects on our mental and physical health.

So how do we balance the demands of our busy lives with the call to serve others? It all comes down to our priorities. We need to make intentional choices about how we use our time and rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit to direct our actions and decisions.

The key is to prioritize our relationship with God and make time to abide in Christ. We cannot pour out into others if we are not first filled up ourselves. By seeking God's presence and guidance in our lives, we can gain a sense of perspective and clarity that allows us to make better choices about how we use our time.

At the same time, we need to be careful not to put too much pressure on ourselves to save the world. We cannot save anyone; only Jesus can. Our responsibility is to serve others with a joyful heart and to be faithful to the small acts of obedience that God calls us to.

In doing so, we can be involved in laying the building bricks of the kingdom of God that will last into eternity. So let us all seek to be servants of Christ, putting the needs of others before our own and trusting in God's provision and guidance in our lives. Thank you for listening to the GoodLion podcast.

Mar 16, 202315:19
Love & Holiness - The Character of Yahweh (2nd Hand Seminary) | Jon Markey, Austin Palmer, & Johnny Golightly

Love & Holiness - The Character of Yahweh (2nd Hand Seminary) | Jon Markey, Austin Palmer, & Johnny Golightly

In this episode, host Aaron Salvato and three of his classmates from Western seminary sit down to discuss theological concepts surrounding the love and holiness of God's character. Aaron frames this episode as an experience of"secondhand seminary", a gateway into learning and diving deeper into one's faith. Aaron explains that historically, this concept has helped him grow in his walk with Christ through listening to friends and mentors who attended seminary share the things they were learning: "It would inspire me to go read some of the books that they were reading or listen to some of the lectures from theologians that they were benefiting from. I called it second-hand seminary, and it massively helped me grow as a young pastor."

Aaron and his classmates, Johnny Golightly, Jon Markey, and Austin Palmer, are part of a cohort led by Professor Gerry Breshears, whom Aaron describes as "one of the best theological minds of our time! Gerry is a jedi master… a founding board member of the Bible Project and a longtime theology professor at Western seminar… despite his vast knowledge, he’s a humble and intensely caring prof who pushes his students to dive deeper and fall more in love with Jesus!”

Although Aaron and his classmates had hoped to make this a multiple part series, they were not able to due to their busy schedules. Despite this, we believe that this episode still contains a lot of great conversation that will give listeners an opportunity to be a fly on the wall listening in to a conversation between seminary students sharing ideas about the faith, the character of God, and the way of Jesus.

If you're interested in deepening your faith and learning more about the love and holiness of God's character, this episode is for you!



Dr. Joe Holden on Seminary, Biblical Authority and Holding Fast to Inerrancy - Great episode from Brian Brodersen

Calvary Chapel: Seminary & Anti-intellectualism - Helpful content from CGN Mission & Methods podcast

More podcasts from us featuring Gerry!

Mar 01, 202301:23:40
The Anonymity Of Pastoral Work - Nate Holdridge

The Anonymity Of Pastoral Work - Nate Holdridge

In this episode, Aaron is joined by guest Nate Holdridge to discuss the anonymity of pastoral work. While pastoral work may seem like a public job in this age of celebrity pastors, Nate argues that embracing the anonymous aspects of this work is a better path, and essential for the pastor's soul.

Using Paul's image of the farmer and the field, Nate highlights that the pastor, like a farmer, is a mere worker employed by God. The only one in the equation that matters is God, who gives the growth. This means that good pastoral work has a tinge of anonymity, where pastors do work that is often unseen and are there for the service of the field. They cannot produce fruit on their own.

Throughout the episode, Aaron and Nate discuss various topics, including the comparison game that can steal a pastor's joy, and the importance of faithfulness. They also delve into the idea that growth of depth is more valuable than numerical growth, and that workaholism can be harmful to the pastor's soul.

The pressure that millennial pastors feel to live up to the older generations, and the pitfalls of pastors building a social media platform for themselves, are also explored. Nate shares his views on why pastors should consider the anonymous aspects of their work as a healthy antidote to the temptations and pressures that come with the public nature of pastoral work.

We believe this episode will encourage pastors who are working hard but feeling unseen. No matter the size of your church or the length of your time in ministry, pastoral work is often challenging and can feel lonely. It is easy to get caught up in the comparison game, social media pressure, and the drive for numerical growth. However, we hope that this episode speaks to your heart and reminds you that it is the Lord who brings the harvest. May you be reminded that no matter how unseen your work may feel, it is essential and valued in the eyes of God.


Nate Holdridge has served as senior pastor of Calvary Monterey on California’s central coast since 2008. Calvary’s vision is to see Jesus Famous. Nate teaches and writes with that aim at

Nate also leads the Jesus Famous Podcast, conducting interviews and discussions that help keep Jesus first. He has also written The No-Nonsense Biblical Man, Dear New Dad, Whole-Hearted Work, (un)Reasonable Faith, and more. Nate also serves as a member of the Executive Team of Calvary Global Network.

Feb 20, 202301:34:33
Devotions, or Devoted? - Aaron Salvato & Brian Higgins | Classic Episode

Devotions, or Devoted? - Aaron Salvato & Brian Higgins | Classic Episode

In this classic episode from season 2 of the Goodlion podcast, we join hosts Aaron Salvato and Brian Higgins on a deep dive into the Christian idea of "devotions." We explore the tension that many of us feel when it comes to devotions, often seeing them as just another chore. However, we discover that devotions are meant to be an opportunity to grow closer to God and become more devoted to Him and His kingdom. 

Many Christians feel a tension when it comes to devotions. They often feel like devotions are just another chore, something they have to do, but don't really understand the purpose behind it. However, we believe that God is actually calling us into something deeper, a life of devotion. Together, Aaron and Brian highlight the importance of approaching devotions with the right heart and understanding. 

Devotions are meant to be more than just a routine, they're meant to be an opportunity to grow closer to God and become more devoted to Him and His kingdom. When we approach devotions with the right heart and understanding, they have the power to transform our lives. We truly believe that this concept of devotions is one of the most important things for Christians to understand. Once you get it, it changes everything. Your relationship with God deepens, your faith becomes stronger, and you become more empowered to live a life closeness to Jesus. 

Join us on this classic episode of the GoodLion Podcast!

Feb 10, 202347:32
Healing From Covid Division - Terry Michaels
Feb 03, 202301:24:29
True Repentance Requires A Broken Heart

True Repentance Requires A Broken Heart

As Christians, it is easy for us to come to God only when we want to escape the consequences of our sin, rather than coming to Him with a genuinely broken heart of repentance. Aaron reminds us that a true desire for repentance and change must come from a deep sense of sorrow for our sin and a recognition of the ways in which it has hurt God and others.

The GoodLion Podcast is excited to bring you an episode featuring content that was left on the cutting room floor of Aaron Salvato's recent sermon titled "Crying Out to the Father." In this powerful message, Aaron shares about the importance of having a broken heart for our sin.

In this episode, Aaron also discusses how having a broken heart for our sin is essential for our spiritual growth and intimacy with God. He encourages us to be honest with God about our sin, and to trust in His forgiveness and grace.

Additionally, Aaron shares some personal experiences that illustrate the need for a broken heart for our sin. He challenges us to take a hard look at our own hearts and to seek God's help in breaking them for our sin.

Overall, this bonus episode of the GoodLion Podcast is a powerful reminder of the importance of a broken heart for our sin and the transformative power of repentance. We hope that it will inspire and encourage you on your own spiritual journey.

Jan 11, 202324:58
Crying Out To The Father - A study of God's Fatherhood

Crying Out To The Father - A study of God's Fatherhood

The GoodLion Podcast is excited to bring you this special episode featuring a sermon from Aaron Salvato. Aaron recently preached at Calvary Chapel Vista on Psalm 86, a psalm that speaks to the fatherhood of God.

In this sermon, Aaron delves into the tenderness and care with which God relates to us as his children. He shares his own experiences as a new father and the ways in which becoming a father has given him a deeper appreciation for the love and care of God.

Aaron believes that many young Christians have lost sight of the fatherly love of God, and he encourages his listeners to cry out to God and seek to reconnect with him in this way. As you listen to this sermon, take time to reflect on your own relationship with God as your father. Consider the ways in which you can deepen your connection with him and experience his love and care in your life. Let this sermon be a reminder of the tenderness and compassion of God, and the importance of crying out to him in times of need.

We hope that this sermon will encourage and inspire you in your own journey of faith.

Thank you for tuning in to the GoodLion Podcast, and don't forget to join us next time for more thought-provoking content.
Jan 03, 202347:54
What Exactly IS the GoodLion Podcast?

What Exactly IS the GoodLion Podcast?

The GoodLion Podcast is a show that explores the intersection of faith and culture. Hosts Aaron Salvato and Brian Higgins have been doing the show for 8 seasons and have built a loyal audience of young adults and youth who are hungry for authentic conversations about spirituality and the world around them.

In this episode, Aaron addresses a question that they often get from new listeners: "What is the GoodLion Podcast?" He explains that the he and Brian see the show as a platform for open and honest discussions about the Christian faith and how it relates to the issues that young people face in their daily lives. They believe that these are important conversation to have, as many young people are struggling to make sense of their faith in a world that is constantly changing and challenging them.

Through the show, Aaron and Brian have seen God use their conversations to minister to people and help them grow in their faith. Aaron shares some of the ways that the GoodLion Podcast has been a ministry to their audience, including providing a sense of community and support for young people who may be feeling isolated in their faith. He also discusses how
they have launched GoodLion Ministries as a way to grow what God is doing through GoodLion.

Overall, this episode of the GoodLion Podcast is a great introduction to the show for those who are curious about what it's all about. Whether you're a long-time listener or just discovering the show for the first time, this episode will give you a better understanding of the heart and vision of the GoodLion Podcast and the ways that God is using it to minister to young people and help them grow in their faith.

Dec 14, 202232:20
Wake Up To The Mission (Evan Wickham) - Resist Apathy pt 6

Wake Up To The Mission (Evan Wickham) - Resist Apathy pt 6

Evan Wickham and Aaron Salvato discuss the "Mission of God" and what it means for followers of The Way of Jesus. They discuss their shared background growing up as pastor's kids in evangelical culture, and how easy it is to become apathetic to the mission of the Church. Evan gives some great insights into how to break free from this apathy and find ourselves more committed to living out the call of the Christian Church.

Nov 03, 202201:13:24
Wake Up To Your Need For Christ - Resisting Apathy pt.5

Wake Up To Your Need For Christ - Resisting Apathy pt.5

So often we turn to things like money, stuff, safety and security to give us what we need. In doing so, we often grow apathetic towards our true need: Christ. 

In this episode, Aaron gives a message pointing us to the reality of our need for a savior. We need to wake up to the reality that we need Jesus more than we need anyone or anything else. The world is full of sin and darkness, and apathy lulls us to a sleepy place of comfortability with sin. We know sin leads to death, but so often we don't treat it that way. We need to wake up and see sin for the destructive force it is. We must resist apathy and turn towards Christ.

Oct 26, 202223:53
Wake Up To Holiness - Resisting Apathy pt.4

Wake Up To Holiness - Resisting Apathy pt.4

A dive into the concept of God's Holiness and the call for Christians to be Holy. What does Holy even mean? How can we be asleep to this reality? We explore how failing to understand Holiness can cause us to be apathetic in our faith, and discuss how to turn things around and wake up to the call to be Holy.

Oct 13, 202233:43
To The Christian Who Has Lost Their Passion - Resist Apathy pt3

To The Christian Who Has Lost Their Passion - Resist Apathy pt3

Brian and Aaron respond to a message from a listener who 1. admits her struggle with apathy, and 2. also shares some beautiful insight on how to resist it! In this episode we try our best to acknowledge just how easy it is to lose our passion for God, but also just how possible it is to find our way back to Jesus.

Oct 04, 202201:08:56
Wake Up To The Love - Resisting Apathy pt.2

Wake Up To The Love - Resisting Apathy pt.2

Part 2 of GoodLion's series on "Resisting Apathy." The first step to waking up from the slumber of apathy is recognizing God's story and where we find our place in it. But the next thing we need to discover is the love of God. The love of God is one of the most central themes in the entire Scriptures and could be argued to be the true meaning of life. Despite this, so many Christians feel distant from God, and some even question if God loves them because of circumstances in their life. 

In this episode, we want to dive into the concept of God's love. We want to help people everywhere wake up to the reality that God loves them deeply and cares for them like a father cares for his child.

This also includes facing the reality that God sometimes shouts at us within the fire. Often time we interpret this shouting as angry, but really it is loving because it is a father trying to rescue his child. 

No matter where you find yourself today or what labels you've given yourself, we hope this episode helps you adopt the primary label of "loved." We hope it enables you to understand how truly loved you are and how freeing a life of love can be. We hope this episode inspires you to wake up and follow Jesus, the one who IS love.

Sep 22, 202201:22:51
How To Break Free From Apathy - Uche Anizor | Apathy Series

How To Break Free From Apathy - Uche Anizor | Apathy Series

In this episode, Aaron speaks with professor Uche Anizor, author of the book "Overcoming Apathy: Gospel Hope for Those Who Struggle to Care".
They discuss the struggle many church kids face, namely, growing up in a Christian environment and feeling "on fire for God", and then developing apathy in their college years and drifting to a state of complacency.
Uche offers some great guidance on what can be done to resist and break free from an apathetic Christian life.
Uche Anizor (Phd, Wheaton College) is an associate professor of theology at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University.
Sep 14, 202201:22:27
Wake Up To The Story - Resisting Apathy pt.1

Wake Up To The Story - Resisting Apathy pt.1

Part one of a new series by GoodLion Ministries called "Resisting Apathy". Aaron and Brian speak into the problem of apathy in the Christian life, noting how it is a problem that is born out of complacency and a disconnect from Christ. 

Christian apathy is defined as a lack of interest or concern for the things of God. It is a problem that plagues the church and keeps people from truly following Jesus.  As two former youth pastors, Aaron and Brian have seen so many young Christians ride the roller coaster of faith, swinging from "on fire for Christ" to "burned out on religion" and "disconnected from God." 

When people are complacent, they are content with where they are in their relationship with God. They are not interested in growing or changing. This can lead to a disconnect from the Christian community and from Jesus.   Apathy is also a problem because it leads to a complacency about sin. When people are not interested in the things of God, they are also not interested in repenting of their sin. This can lead to a life marked by sin and a lack of fruitfulness.   If you are struggling with apathy, it is important to understand that you are not alone. Many Christians struggle with this issue. However, there is hope!

Aaron and Brian discuss how vital it is to start your journey of resisting apathy with reconnecting with the story of Christianity itself. The story of God. Once you recapture this story, and find your place within it, your journey away from apathy and towards a revitalized faith truly begins.

Sep 07, 202201:10:58
Is the Bible The Word of God, or is Jesus? - Evan Wickham

Is the Bible The Word of God, or is Jesus? - Evan Wickham

Years ago I heard one of my mentors, Evan Wickham, use a phrase I found compelling. He said: "Jesus is what God has to say." It was powerful and it stuck with me. Over the years I've been mulling over this phrase and thinking about how it intersects with one of the debates that's being had within Christianity about the concept of “the word of God.”

Some people insist the Bible is the word of God. Still others insist, no Jesus is the Word of God. Where does the truth lie?

That's the question we are going to dive into today.

On this episode I'm joined by that same mentor I learned the phrase “Jesus Is what God has to say” from: my former youth pastor and good friend, Evan Wickham. I know you're going to be blessed to hear from Evan today. If you don't know him, he's a worship leader, Husband and father of 5 kids, a graduate of western seminary, and a church planting pastor who leads Park Hill Church in San Diego.

I can't speak more highly of the guy. He's been one of the people in my life who has challenged me and inspired me to follow Jesus the most. He's always encouraged me to dive deep, not shy away from tough questions, and has always pointed me back to Christ. In fact, if it wasn't for the ways he impacted me over the years, this show and ministry of GoodLion probably wouldn't exist!

With all that said, I know you're going to enjoy todays episode as we explore the concept of the "Word of God", and ask who, or what, is the Word of God? We get deep. We get Biblical. I know that I learned a lot, and I hope you do too.

I hope this conversation between a teacher and his former student blesses you, encourages you, challenges you, and surprises you.

Youre listening to the GoodLion podcast

Aug 22, 202201:28:55
Community - A Mess Worth Making

Community - A Mess Worth Making

Brian Higgins shares with us about the necessity of community in the Christian life. We are currently living through a post-pandemic cultural moment where many Christians are finding it hard to regain community. We also know many young people who've graduated out of youth group and now are trying to navigate their 20s also struggle greatly to find community. It can be easy to give up. In this episode we want to share with you why we believe community is important, even if it's messy.

Aug 16, 202224:22
Can a Sin Be Unforgivable?

Can a Sin Be Unforgivable?

Is it possible for a sin to be so bad that Jesus himself can never forgive you? This is a question that’s haunted many Christians, especially in light of the scriptural passage on the “blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.” What does all of this mean? Today on the GoodLion podcast, we explore the answer.
Aug 09, 202253:18
Mission Drift, Political Extremes, and Wisdom in the Negative World - Mike Doyle

Mission Drift, Political Extremes, and Wisdom in the Negative World - Mike Doyle

In a cultural moment that is growing hostile towards the Church, it's becoming easier than ever for Christians to slip into mission drift. 

“Without careful attention, faith-based organizations will inevitably drift from their founding mission. It’s that simple. It will happen.” - Peter Greer

Out of defensiveness and self preservation, it can become easy for us to turn our mission field into a battle field, where the focus and goal shifts from reaching the lost to defeating them in political and social battles. 

This isn't to say Christians should not have an influence on the culture, far from it. It is an admonishment to walk cautiously in these times and keep the main thing the main thing. It is encouragement to avoid the extremes of both the far-left and far-right, and ensure the main thing we are radical about is the Gospel and everything that comes with it.

In this final episode of the negative World Series, Aaron Salvato, Brian Higgins, and Mike Doyle discuss how we can have wisdom while living in the negative world.

Aug 01, 202201:13:11
Tim Keller, the War on Winsomeness, & Responding to the "Negative World."

Tim Keller, the War on Winsomeness, & Responding to the "Negative World."

Many Christians now sense the world has shifted. While culture was once positive towards Christianity, we now see a world that has shifted from openness, to indifference, and now hostility.

A negative world.

Which begs the question... how do we respond to this idea of the negative world? How do we adapt? How do we avoid negative responses that hold us back from our mission, and focus on the kind of response that makes a difference in this broken world?

Today on the GoodLion Podcast, I once again sit down with Mike Doyle, founder and lead pastor of Movement Church in NYC, to chat about this complex issue.

We discuss the need for a deep faith. A renewed sense of Christian vision, identity, and formation, and how reclaiming the monastic principles of early Christians, even in small ways, can make a big difference.

Later in the episode I’ll be joined by Brian Higgins to take a look at the debate surrounding Tim Keller’s strategy of winsomeness, and how properly understanding what we mean when we say winsome makes a huge difference in how to understand this conflict.

Then Mike will join me again to close out the episode as we discuss the problems of both-sidesism, and the need for a resurgence of theological orthodoxy.

I really enjoyed these convos, and as This episode is the 2nd of a 3 part series on the Negative World, there will be more good convos to come.

We hope it helps you think and consider how to walk wisely as a Jesus follower, and to consider the ways the world is changing, but also how our mission as Christians never changes.

You’re listening to the GoodLion Podcast

Jul 19, 202201:22:52
Abortion, Christians, & The Value of a Life (with Ryan Lynn) / Rebroadcast

Abortion, Christians, & The Value of a Life (with Ryan Lynn) / Rebroadcast

Abortion is a hot button topic that is often debated by both Christians and non Christians. Ryan Lynn (Founder of the Speak Life Collective) is here to challenge us on how we can think through this divisive topic as followers of Christ. In this discussion, Aaron and Brian dialogue with Ryan about the value of an unborn life, how to respond to those who hold pro-choice views, what it means to be pro-life, the ethics of abortion, how to get involved with this ideological battle as a peacemaker, how to show grace and compassion to women who've struggled through this issue, and how to hold boldly to your convictions while carrying those convictions with compassion. It's a great talk and we really hope it encourages and equips you to walk closely with Jesus as you engage the culture around you for the Kingdom of God. For great apologetical resources on this topic, visit the Q&A page on the Speak Life Collective website -
Jun 25, 202201:28:41
Living In The Negative World - (Mike Doyle)

Living In The Negative World - (Mike Doyle)

Throughout our lives many of us have heard older generations harken back to a time when Christians were accepted, praised, and embraced by the culture.

Everyone went to Church on sundays. People seemed to hold a Christian worldview and morality, and it was rare to find someone who didn’t believe in Heaven or Hell. A world that was positive towards Christians.

Some people my age remember a more neutral world, where Christianity was seen as one of many belief systems free thinkers could choose from.

But today, many are talking about the negative world, a shift where the views of the culture have become much more hostile against Christians.

Do these views have validity, or are they an overblown exaggeration? What does this mean for the Church? And how can we react to it in a way that’s true with who we are as Christ followers?

Today on the GoodLion Podcast, I sit down with Mike Doyle, founder and lead pastor of Movement Church in NYC, to chat about this complex issue. Later in the episode I’ll be joined by Brian Higgins to dive further into how we can respond to this concept.

I really enjoyed these convos, and as This episode is the first of a 3 part series on the Negative World, there will be more good convos to come.

We hope it helps you think and consider how to walk wisely as a Jesus follower, and to consider the ways the world is changing, but also how our mission as Christians never changes.

You’re listening to the GoodLion Podcast!

Jun 08, 202201:01:31
The Way of Jesus vs The Way of Peter - #FiresideTheology

The Way of Jesus vs The Way of Peter - #FiresideTheology

Defensive violence, wounded Healers, and how radical enemy-love changes the world! So often as Christians we feel we must defend Jesus and lash out at those who are against Him. Too often we take the path of Peter and chop off the ear of someone who needs healing from Christ. In this episode, Aaron walks us through what he's learned about the Way of Jesus, and how though Peter's actions came from a noble place, we can learn from his mistakes and follow Jesus better when it comes to loving our enemies.

#doubt #deconstruction #exvangelical #churchhurt #enemylove #thewayofjesus #wayofjesus #violence #hatred #healing

Jun 01, 202216:02
Brian and Aaron Become Dads - (Season 8 Premiere)

Brian and Aaron Become Dads - (Season 8 Premiere)

The GoodLion Podcast is back for season 8! Brian and Aaron sit down for a heart to heart about a recent big change in their lives: becoming fathers! 

May 24, 202201:08:07
Pastoring In A Ukrainian War Zone - Benjamin Morrison (Season 7 Finale)

Pastoring In A Ukrainian War Zone - Benjamin Morrison (Season 7 Finale)

With war raging between Russia and Ukraine, we wanted to take a moment and connect with a pastor in the thick of it. Friend of the show and CGN pastor Benjamin Morrison is currently doing ministry in the midst of a war zone... and he has a ton of perspective to offer us. 

We cover things like: 

  • What is God doing in Ukraine?
  • How is the Church operating? 
  • How can we pray for the mental health of the pastors on the ground floor?
  • How can we in the states help?
  • What are the motives of Putin?
  • How does Putin's vision clash with the Kingdom of God?
  • Can we trust the media in the midst of war?

Note from Aaron: In this episode towards the 2nd half, we discuss some of the geopolitical issues at play. I am a novice in these things, and I tend to approach things from a "Kingdom of God lens" as much as possible. That said, I acknowledge some of what I say in this episode could be said in ignorance, especially as we are discussing some of the various theories out there sent in by our friends on social media. Please bear with me (and feel free to reach out if you have something to add to the discussion!) 

That said, I truly agree with the words of Jon Tyson: 

"The real conspiracy is satanic and it’s goal is to get you to focus on ‘global meta whatevers’ that you can do almost nothing about and neglect the place of prayer, the word, and sacrificial love of neighbor.”

I encourage all listeners, no matter their political lens, to really consider what Benjamin is saying, as a pastor and brother in Christ on the ground floor of this war. He offers a lot of wisdom for us to consider, and has proven his focus is on the advances of the light of the Gospel into the darkest places.



Support Benjamin's Ministry in Ukraine

Ben's Facebook - updates

CGN Relief Fund

GoodLion Episode: Warnings About Progressive Christianity

Mar 30, 202201:31:27
Hypocrisy Hurts Our Witness. Humility Heals It - Nick Cady

Hypocrisy Hurts Our Witness. Humility Heals It - Nick Cady

Aaron talks with Nick Cady all about the problem of Christian hypocrisy, how it is harming the church, and how it shatters the witness of the Christian Church. Nick speaks from the heart and shares about a book he wrote called "The God I Won't Believe In: Facing Nine Common Barriers To Embracing Christianity", specifically from a chapter entitled "I can't believe in a God who creates hateful and hypocritical followers." Aaron and Nick discuss how to combat the problem of hypocrisy, and how Christlike humility is the antidote the culture is craving, whether they realize it or not.

Mar 24, 202201:08:42
 Love, Not Fear - Advancing the Kingdom | GoodLion Theology Class #6

Love, Not Fear - Advancing the Kingdom | GoodLion Theology Class #6

Fear is the enemy of love. The idols of safety and security can push us to live the Christian life from a posture of fear. If we are to advance the Kingdom of God, we must realize that we are called to a radical way of love that is courageous and bold.  

In  the final episode of our class on "Advancing the Kingdom", Aaron Salvato reminds us of the call on Christians to live a life of courageous love.  

Class produced by Calvary Global Network (CGN).

Mar 17, 202225:29
Waging Peace on Social Media: Lessons From The Comment Section

Waging Peace on Social Media: Lessons From The Comment Section

In an age where tech dominates our lives, we spend so much time on social media. Christians need to face the facts. Whether we like it or not, social media is a big part of the public square of the day, and for the Christian called to represent Jesus and to help point others to Him, in many situations, social media can either make or break our Christian witness.

In this episode, Aaron discusses lessons he has learned from operating as a pastor on social media and details ways he has struggled to represent Jesus well in interactions with other Christians. He shares a story about an exvangelical meme, an explosive comment section, and the surprising ways Jesus used it to teach him a lesson on the value of humility, understanding, and waging peace (rather than war) on social media.

Mar 08, 202248:18
Simple Obedience, Not Escapism | Advancing the Kingdom - GoodLion Theology Class #5

Simple Obedience, Not Escapism | Advancing the Kingdom - GoodLion Theology Class #5

This world is not our home. It was never intended to be. We are pilgrims here on earth and we should live as such. The problem that has arisen is that many Christians have become escapists instead of pilgrims. They see the world as a hostile place, so they run and hide from it. No matter what our eschatology is, we must focus not on escapism, but on simple acts of obedience, which are the building bricks of the Kingdom! 

In part 5 of our class on "Advancing the Kingdom", Aaron Salvato helps us see the power of simple acts of obedience when it comes to moving God's Kingdom forward, and has a compelling discussion with students Zach & Ellie Owens, Sam Bucelli, and Emilia DiNatale. 

Class produced by Calvary Global Network (CGN).

Feb 22, 202248:52