Infectious Historians

Tom Ewing (Virginia Tech) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his work on the Russian Flu, a late 19th century influenza pandemic that resonates with the early 20th century Spanish Flu. After setting the stage and touching upon the name of the pandemic as well as its reasoning and implications, the conversation moves to reflect upon the interest (or lack thereof) in the Russian Flu, followed by moving into the topic of mortality counts - covering both their attraction to observers and the difficulties in actually reaching reliable numbers. The next part of the conversation examines the comparison between the Russian and Spanish Flus as well as how the memory of the Russian Flu influenced expectations and behaviors during the Spanish Flu. This soon leads towards Covid within the broader context of earlier pandemics.

Joshua Teplitsky (University of Pennsylvania) comes on the podcast to discuss his work on plague and its effects on Jewish communities in early modern Europe and particularly during the 18th century. Joshua offers an overview of some of the rich sources he uses for his research, including both the sources for mortality at the time and sources that describe how local Jewish communities perceived and reacted to plague - ranging from rabbinic responsa to epic Yiddish poems. He then focuses on a single case study - the plague outbreak in Prague in 1713 to offer a more concrete interpretation. The conversation subsequently moves to a deeper discussion of the myth that Jews were somehow more immune or resistant to plague, based on Joshua’s research who explored both the evidence and the origins of the idea. Joshua further connects this myth to broader myths surrounding diseases.

Pablo Gomez (University of Wisconsin, Madison) comes on the podcast to talk about knowledge, science and health in the early modern Caribbean. The conversation begins with the basics and how the region does not fall into the tropes of modernity, then focuses on Pablo’s interest in how people of African descent navigated the area and period. Pablo speaks specifically about a group of Black ritual practitioners and covers some of the ways in which he learns about them in sources (mostly inquisitional records). The conversation continues to discuss topics such as the transmission of specialized knowledge, memory of earlier societies in the area and the partial presence of the Caribbean in standard narratives of epidemics and pandemics. A brief reflection on Covid wraps up the interview. 

Troels Arboll (University of Copenhagen) joins the show to discuss his work on disease and healing in ancient Mesopotamia. Troels first defines ancient Mesopotamia both temporally and spatially and points out some of the sources we have for the period and their issues. The conversation soon reaches infectious diseases and how they were perceived and recorded by the inhabitants of Ancient Mesopotamia. This sets the stage for an overview of the difficulties of terminology in the surviving primary sources as well as the uncertainties of retrospective diagnosis that forces ambiguous ancient terms into modern-day categories. Troels subsequently surveys how the inhabitants of ancient Mesopotamia responded to infectious diseases, and touches upon the questions of healing. Finally, the conversation moves to Covid and its effects on discussions in the field.

Mary Dunn (St. Louis University) discusses her recent book on disease, illness and religion in French Canada over the 17th and 18th centuries. Mary begins with some background on Canada in the period, then moves to discuss some of the main sources from the period and their authors - the Jesuits. The main part of the interview examines some of the illness narratives Mary found in the sources and some of the stories they told about healing. Mary also shares some of her thoughts of how disability studies can contribute to our thinking about the past, and about her personal connection with her sources based on her own life experiences.

Jeffrey Reznick (The National Library of Medicine) comes on the podcast to discuss his work as Chief of the History of Medicine Division at the National Library of Medicine and his research, particularly on the 1918 influenza pandemic. The conversation begins with a survey of the National Library of Medicine, and Jeffrey briefly outlines his normal work there before moving on to the Library’s multifaceted responses to Covid - including the preservation of information and ephemera. Jeffrey reflects on the connections between Covid and the 1918 influenza pandemic on multiple levels. The conversation includes multiple references to resources and tools that the Library of Medicine has been working on and making available to online users. Before wrapping up, the conversation touches upon some of the future directions for the Library of Medicine.

Elena Conis joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her recent book on the history of DDT and its use. The conversation begins with a brief overview of the early history of DDT up to and around its entry into mass production in the 1940s and 1950s. In parallel to the discussion of the commercial and industrial aspects of its use, Elena points out some of the cultural reasons why DDT was so popular. The next part of the conversation examines the changing attitude to DDT and its eventual decline, centered around Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring (1962) although earlier voices had similarly critiqued DDT and its massive use. The discussion covers the period until the 21st century, as DDT remains in use, albeit limited, today.

Alex Otieno (Arcadia University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss HIV-AIDS in Kenya. After a broad overview of the AIDS pandemic from the 1980s until today, including the issues of mortality and treatment, the conversation moves to Africa and Kenya. Alex discusses the early failure of Kenya to deal with the pandemic, and the rapid evolution of its response since the late 1990s, which has resulted in considerable success. Among the topics covered is the international aid that Kenya receives, the rise of circumcision among males in Kenya, and how the country lives with HIV-AIDS at the present, and both top-down and bottom-up responses to HIV. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the future.

Helen Rhee (Westmont College) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her work on illness, pain and healthcare in early Christianity. The conversation begins with an overview of medicine in Greco-Roman antiquity, and transitions from there to survey health and illness in the Hebrew Bible before moving on to early Christian times. The topics covered include changes over time in the association between the divine and health (or disease), asceticism, pain, and the new idea of Christian health through hospitals in cities.

Paula Larsson (University of Oxford) comes on the new Infectious Historians episode to talk about her work on anti-vaccination movements. The conversation begins with an overview of vaccines before moving into vaccine hesitancy and anti-vaccination. Paula explores the similarities in anti-vaccination movements and their arguments over the past two centuries, while drawing parallels to famous recent cases such as the MMR vaccine and its false links to autism and the Covid vaccine. Near the end, Paula discusses her public engagement work, which she has pursued through multiple pathways.

Jim Downs (Gettysburg College) joins the Infectious Historians to talk about his recent book. The conversation begins with epidemiology and its origins, focusing on the 18th century military bureaucracy and the production of scientific knowledge in venues associated with slavery, prisons, the colonies and war. Jim follows the people who produced this knowledge - but emphasizes the voices of the marginalized groups who are an inherent part of this story. The last part of the interview is a discussion of Jim’s public-facing work and some of the issues that such work might encounter.

Sara Carr (Northeastern University) joins the Infectious Historians for a conversation about her work on redesigning urban space in response to a pandemic. The discussion begins with a survey of the major changes in urban landscapes in the US over the past two centuries. Sara presents the epidemics she covers - ranging from cholera to urban blight - and talks about the speed in which changes might be expected to occur. The differential impact of diseases among class and residency status comes up in several contexts, and Sara discusses what changes might happen in urban space as a result of the Covid pandemic.

Maria Spyrou (University of Tübingen) and Phil Slavin (University of Stirling) join Merle and Lee to discuss their recent Nature publication on the source of the Black Death. After quickly covering the basics of paleogenetics and the history of the Black Death(!), the conversation moves on to the article itself and highlights its importance while also offering a “behind-the-scenes” look at how the research was planned and conducted. In the later part of the episode, Maria and Phil reflect on their collaboration over the past several years as well as on interdisciplinarity, its challenges and its potential.

Anjuli Raza Kolb (University of Toronto) joins Merle and Lee to discuss “Epidemic Empire”, her recent book on the history behind the metaphor of the “terrorism epidemic”. The conversation covers the development of the idea of insurgent violence as an epidemic in the nineteenth century, touching on imperialism and colonialism, particularly from a British perspective. Anjuli traces the development of the metaphor chronologically, with several stops along the way, until Covid. Among others, Anjuli examines discourse about Muslims and infectious disease, and several transition points - such as the Haiti Revolution and the Algerian Independence Movement, as well as AIDS and 9/11.

Adam Izdebski (Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his work at the frontier between pollen and disease, and in particular in light of his recent work analyzing pollen from the time of the Black Death. The conversation begins with an introduction to palynology (pollen analysis) and its limitations. Adam discusses fieldwork as well as a few examples for what pollen can offer us before turning to his research and what his large meta-analysis of pollen sites across Europe found about the Black Death. Adam also touches upon the potential of interdisciplinary work as well as his outreach initiatives, including his project of getting involved with policymaking.

Suman Seth [https://sts.cornell.edu/suman-seth]  joins Merle and Lee to talk about his work on medicine in the British colonies during the 18th century and how it changed as people learned about tropical diseases. Suman begins by providing background on how medicine was practiced in Britain and in the colonies, alongside how new generations learned about tropical diseases over time. He then discusses how people new to colonies were “seasoned” to acclimate them to tropical diseases along with differences in this impact on colonizers, soldiers, and the enslaved among others. At the end, Suman describes how these changes shaped the development of ideas of race and racial thinking.

Jennifer Hughes joins Merle and Lee to discuss her work on empire, society and church in 16th century Mexico. After Jennifer sets up the conversation with some background, the discussion focuses on the growth of the Catholic church in Mexico through the Spanish Empire against a backdrop of periodic epidemic disease, examining changes through both imperial and indigenous perspectives. The discussion covers themes such as the economic impact of disease, conversion to Christianity, and the indigenous response to cataclysmic epidemics. Jennifer also presents the range of attitudes and responses on the Spanish side.

Claas Kirchhelle (University College Dublin) and Samantha Vanderslott (Oxford University) talk to Merle and Lee about the development and history of public health laboratories and how they worked (or didn’t) during Covid. After first discussing what a public health lab is and how they work, they speak about when they were created in a few countries around the world and how they have developed historically. Claas and Sam note the role of public and private labs together and the key role of Swine Flu in 2009 in how this shaped public health then and during Covid. They also point out the tensions between centralized big data goals and the need for local public health facilities and aims. At the end, Claas and Sam suggest how Covid might be used to shape better outcomes in the future with a greater place for social scientists in future planning.

Rhona Seidelman (Oklahoma University) talks to Merle and Lee about how the newly founded state of Israel quarantined immigrants at Shaar Ha’aliya. After discussing background information on how large the center was and how many people passed through it, she speaks about the diseases people were treated for while there and the reactions of the people quarantined at the center. Rhona then talks about why the site was no longer used over time, parallels to more familiar sites such as Ellis Island in New York, and why the Israeli public has largely forgotten the site in the decades that followed. At the end, she discusses the importance of such histories during Covid.

Aro Velmet (USC Dornsife) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his work on the Institut Pasteur in the context of colonial France in the late 19th century. The conversation begins with some background on colonial France and the French civilizing mission, then moves on to examine the foundation and operation of the Institut Pasteur, especially in the French colonies. Aro explains how the Pasteurians became involved in public health in the French colonies and reflects on their relationship to the French colonial state.

Colin Elliot (Indiana University) talks to Merle and Lee about the late second century CE Antonine Plague and the complicated ways to assess its impact in antiquity. He begins by offering the textbook background to the pandemic before turning to discussing the sources we have for the pandemic along with the problems each type of source has. Colin then turns to discuss how this pandemic exacerbated other existing changes to Roman society at the time and how to try to differentiate its effects. At the end, Colin talks to the hosts about the place of Covid in studying ancient pandemics and how his work might be useful for those who work on other pandemics in the premodern world.

Keith Wailoo (Princeton University) talks to Merle and Lee about his work on racial scripts and the racialization of pandemics with a focus on Covid. He begins by discussing the idea of pandemics unfolding in dramatic acts and then explains the role of race in this story. Keith examines the deeper history of these racial scripts, along with the impact various disparities play in other pandemics. Finally, he reflects upon the highly differentiated Covid story in the US based on geography and offers a future for the academic study of the history of medicine.

Ben Dodds (Florida State University) speaks with Merle and Lee about his new book on memories, myths, and the modern uses of the Black Death over the past 200 years. He begins by discussing the emotional appeal of why people continue to study the Black Death, along with the increased focus on the pandemic since the outbreak of the Cholera Pandemics in the 19th century. Ben then speaks more specifically about the Black Death’s role as a key part of English exceptionalism, in which the pandemic is key to ideas about freedom and industrialization. At the end, Ben explains the importance of public facing histories and literature in the memory and myths of the Black Death along with outlining how he does research on these genres.

The image is from Green's A Short History of the English People, illustrated ed., 1902 (vol. 2, p. 478). 

Kaspar Staub (University of Zurich) talks to Merle and Lee about his work in historical epidemiology and the ways in which it helps contextualize the ongoing Covid pandemic. After first offering background on the field and his education, Kaspar discusses one of his goals, which is to help public health officials and policy makers today understand the historical context of pandemics in the past. He then talks about his work on the 1918 Influenza in Switzerland and its implications for Covid policy, along with how it - and earlier pandemics such as the 1890 “Russian Flu” - fall into the disaster memory gap. At the end, Kaspar, Merle, and Lee have a wide ranging conversation about the role human values play in responding to pandemics and how to help shape those in the future.

Rebecca Kaplan (Oklahoma State University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss some of her recent work on animals and disease. Rebecca first explains the different reasons why we should care about disease in animals - ranging from moral reasons to economic reasons such as the impact on humans and their livelihoods. Rebecca also touches upon some of the diseases that move between different species of animals. The second half of the interview focuses on brucellosis, a group of diseases that drew attention particularly in the early 20th century in the context of livestock. Rebecca surveys some of the issues with brucellosis in the US - such as its presence in milk particularly at a time where the dairy industry was trying to get more people to drink milk, attempts to mitigate its impact through regulation, and the involvement of industry and marketing in these processes.

Susanne Hakenbeck (University of Cambridge) joins Merle and Lee to discuss the key role of archaeology in histories of disease, pandemics, and climate change in the ancient and medieval worlds. After discussing the place of archaeology in understanding health and disease, Susanne talks about the pivotal role archaeologists have in contextualizing disease at specific sites, including dating and what human remains can and cannot show. She then speaks about archaeology and climate change, especially the place of resilience in premodern archaeology and how settlement patterns change over time. Finally, she discusses the inherent tensions within archaeology about micro and macro scales along with how right-wing and other groups have, at times, co-opted archeology for their own goals.

Graham Mooney (Johns Hopkins University) talks to Merle and Lee about the key roles of place and space in how we understand disease in the modern world. After defining these terms and offering a few examples of how to research them, Graham discusses the key role of disease surveillance and tof state coercion in imperial centers and their colonies. He then turns to talk about changes in public health in the last half century, with a focus on the city of Baltimore. At the end, Graham reflects on all of these ideas in light of the Covid pandemic.

Beatrix Hoffman (Northern Illinois University) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss the healthcare system in the United States. The conversation begins with an overview of the American healthcare system and its origins, then proceeds to cover governmental health programs, highlighting those who receive treatment (and in what form), and those who do not receive treatment and remain uninsured. Beatrix focuses in particular on Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers in the 1960s and 1970s, and their attempt to provide heavily subsidized healthcare to union members. The conversation concludes with a reflection on some of Beatrix’s public facing work, in particular her curation of exhibitions at the National Library of Medicine.

Emily Mendenhall (Georgetown University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss Covid in her hometown in northwest Iowa. The conversation begins with a definition and reflection on the idea of syndemic, then gravitates towards Emily’s own experiences returning to her hometown of Okoboji during Covid. Emily uses the Okoboji case study to disentangle issues within the broader American response to Covid - ranging from the politicization of the question, to the personal and communal interactions and interests, as well as the common values in the community that influenced the overall response of Okoboji to Covid. The interview ends with a few reflections on potential ways forward.

Jules Skotnes-Brown (University of St. Andrews) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his work on humans, animals and the environment in the context of South Africa at the turn of the 20th century. The interview begins with some background about South Africa and its disease landscape at the time. Jules covers some of the ideas the different contemporary groups had about these diseases and how to prevent or deal with them. The conversation goes over some of these ideas and practices - such as extermination of big game animals or the creation of rat proof belts (cleared strips of land). Jules situates the experience of South Africa within a broader global context, while also centering the importance of race and colonialism in the discussion.

Lisa Sarasohn (Oregon State University) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss her forthcoming book on vermin since the 17th century. The interview begins with an overview of what vermin are - and how different animal species have been included or excluded throughout the years. The conversation then moves to touch upon early modern conceptions of vermin which eventually led to the stereotyping of human groups as verminous or vermin in the context of colonialism and imperialism. Lisa also expands on two specific species of vermin - lice and rats - before tying the discussion to Covid.

Kirsten Ostherr (Rice University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss the role of the humanities in the context of Covid, in particular in an applied sense. The interview begins with an overview of Kirsten’s project and a few examples of current work in the applied humanities that attempts to address Covid. Kirsten notes how her background has helped her reconsider and reframe the traditional roles of the humanities in this context, and continues to highlight some of the limits and challenges the humanities must face in the 21st century mediascape. She also comments on some ideas to increase the humanities outreach among specific and more receptive audiences.

Andrew Wehrman (Central Michigan University) talks to Merle and Lee about the importance of public health, especially smallpox and inoculations, during the American Revolution. After first orienting listeners to the political situation in North America, Andrew discusses differences between public health in Britain and the colonies, along with how the colonists used quarantine and isolation to stop the spread of smallpox. He then discusses the importance of inoculation in preventing smallpox on a broader scale, along with how the movement of armies during the Revolution led to more demand for more readily available inoculation even for the poor (although not Native Americans). At the end, he offers similarities between 18th century epidemics and Covid including why vaccines changed the calculus and why some outbreaks of smallpox were worse than others.

Tim Newfield (Georgetown University) talks to Merle and Lee about the connected histories of climate change and diseases that become pandemics, focusing on the early medieval and late antique periods. Tim opens by discussing the global cooling events starting in 536 and how researchers know they happened through various proxy datasets, such as tree rings, along with how historians should approach using these types of natural sources. He then talks about the long-term climate cooling event, the Late Antique Little Ice Age, along with its supposed connections to the outbreak of the Justinianic Plague in 541. Tim also talks about why researchers have remained so focused on the influence of climate on plague. At the end, he discusses where he believes the field of pre-modern historical diseases is going and the influence of Covid in this trajectory.

Miri Shefer Mossensohn sits down with Merle and Lee to talk about Ottoman history of medicines and disease. She begins by discussing the broad contours of medicine and disease in the Ottoman Empire, which lasted for 600 years. Miri reveals the wide variety of medical individuals and institutions that existed in the Ottoman world, with few standardized systems until the 19th century, that meant people who sought treatment had huge numbers of options. During the conversation, she offers numerous examples of how infectious diseases were constantly around and accepted, leading to little proactive government policy. At the end, Miri discusses her time teaching a Massive Open Online Course (MOOC) on Islamic history.

Tzafrir Barzilay (Ben Gurion University of the Negev) joins Merle and Lee to discuss persecution of minorities and in particular Jews before and during the Black Death. After some background on the Black Death, Tzafrir uses the case study of Strasbourg to demonstrate how persecutions of minorities could be deeply embedded in local politics. The conversation touches upon some of the practicalities of blaming Jews and other minorities for disease epidemics, and Tzafrir differentiates between well poisoning and other types of accusations such as ritual murder and host desecration. Near the end of the interview, the conversation reflects on the difficulties medieval decision makers faced when having partial and biased information at their disposal in the context of the Black Death and widespread uncertainty (e.g. well-poisoning accusations).

Emily Webster (University of Chicago) joins Merle and Lee to discuss the significant plague outbreaks in Bombay during the Third Plague Pandemic of the turn of the 20th century and the place of environmental history in studying disease. After first surveying the Pandemic and its particular impact in Bombay, Emily discusses why the experience of Bombay was central to how plague was conceptualized across the British Empire and the world. She then explains the importance of urban ecology to understanding the severity of these outbreaks, along with how sanitary measures in Bombay exacerbated the spread of plague, rather than reducing its severity. At the end, Emily talks about her time earning a masters in public health as she was finishing her dissertation along with implications it revealed about the work of historians and scientists.

Daniel Curtis (Erasmus University Rotterdam) talks to Merle and Lee about his diverse work that touches upon multiple disease-related fields. After an overview of the timeframe in which Daniel works - the late medieval and early modern periods, the conversation moves to a discussion of scholarly collaboration in the humanities. Daniel then discusses the benefits and challenges in quantitative work, especially in premodern contexts, and points out that few scholars reflect upon the biases in the datasets. These issues are connected to Daniel’s current project, which looks at inequality in the aftermath of premodern pandemic. The end of the interview focuses on another of Daniel’s recent projects - looking at diseases, epidemics and pandemics in film, where he examines how women or the poor appear in these films, or how they portray heroism.

Audra Wolfe talks to Merle and Lee about her work on scientific freedom during the Cold War and how it still shapes ideas about objectivity and politics in science to the present. After framing the discussion about the Cold War, Audra explains the notion of scientific freedom that supposedly allowed scientists to develop their own research agenda without state interference, which was created in opposition to the Soviet scientific system. She then discusses how this myth was made, especially in light of the Manhattan Project among other examples. Audra then moves on to discuss science, objectivity, and the idea of politicizing science from the end of the Cold War to the present. At the end, she reflects upon the different ways in which science is communicated to the public and history’s place in this process.

Image credit: HARRY KERR/BIPS/GETTY IMAGES

Zachary Dorner (University of Maryland) comes on to discuss his new book, Merchants of Medicine, which discusses the role of merchants, commerce, and capitalism in changing how medicine was made, administered, and thought about across the 18th century. Zack discusses the ideas about medicine before the 18th century and then highlights the dramatic changes in commerce and capitalism that shaped how people consumed and thought about what medicine should do by the end of the century. He highlights the role of early modern states and the development of what would become pharmaceutical companies in this process, while linking these changes to questions of race and ethnicity among others. At the end, Zack connects these new ideas about medicine to how we think about disease today, the often neglected role of social factors, and how medical ideas have been used during Covid that continue this legacy to the present.

Janet Kay (Princeton) returns to the Infectious Historians to discuss her promised after action report on teaching her 100 person course, The Art & Archaeology of Plague, at Princeton University. After reminding listeners about the structure of the course, Janet discusses two key features: plague simulations and the guest lecturers from around the world (including using an episode of the Infectious Historians!). She talks about what worked in the course, what students liked and struggled with, and the amazing work her teaching assistants did. At the end, Janet reflects on how she will teach the course again in a few years and what teaching this course might be like in 10 or 20 years.

Robin Scheffler (MIT) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss his recent book on cancer. Robin begins the interview with a broad discussion of cancer and the different ways it was perceived and conceptualized over the past century. The discussion touches upon topics such as the so-called “war” on cancer and its meaning; cancer and gender; some of the trends and individuals involved in cancer research; and finally, government involvement in cancer research and some of the factors that influence it.

Abigail Dumes (University of Michigan) sits down to talk to Merle and Lee about her anthropological work on Lyme Disease and how it has shaped ideas about long term disease effects on people. After defining Lyme Disease and why its numbers have increased over the last few decades, she turns to the debate over clinical diagnosis of the disease and those who have experienced long term symptoms. Dumes traces out the significant implications of this debate and how it might change disease diagnoses and responses in the future. Finally, she discusses how her work on Lyme Disease can have implications for “long” Covid sufferers, which could reshape ideas about disease in the future.

Matheus Duarte (University of St. Andrews) comes on the podcast to talk to Merle and Lee about his work on turn of the 20th century plague in Brazil and its impact on creating the field of microbiology. After a brief introduction to disease history in Brazil at the time, Matheus discusses the impact and immediate non-medical responses to the plague outbreak in Brazil and their implications for global events. He then discusses the use of pharmaceutical responses - vaccines and serums - in Brazil and their subsequent use in other places around the world, particularly India. At the end, Matheus discusses the key role these responses in Brazil, and their use around the world, played in the rise of microbiology in Europe and globally to this day.

Scott Gabriel Knowles (Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology) joins Merle and Lee to talk about his daily show since March 2020, Covid Calls. Scott begins by providing background to his show, the guests he has had on, and his audience’s responses to the show. He then discusses some of the broad themes he has learned during his 269 shows (as of our taping), including the importance of local context during Covid and the ways in which new themes continue to emerge over the past fourteen months. At the end, he lays out a hopeful vision of what his work, and other public projects of historians and social scientists, could do to shape responses to disasters and Covid in the future.

Meg Leja (SUNY Binghamton) joins Merle and Lee to discuss her work on early medieval medicine and the Carolingians. Meg begins the conversation by situating the Carolingians historically and explaining why they have been written out of the “standard” story of history of medicine. She continues by discussing how the Carolingians thought about health and medicine, while also pointing out some of the issues of concern - and innovations - of the Carolingian period. Among the topics that come up are the supposed dichotomy between “medical” knowledge and “religious” ideas and the extent to which these ideas were held among contemporaries. Meg also links the Carolingian story to broader issues in medieval medicine and reflects upon its importance to non-medievalists.

Jim Webb (Colby College) comes on the podcast to talk to Merle and Lee about his work in historical epidemiology and how its multidisciplinary approach could transform how we teach and research diseases. After first defining what historical epidemiology is and why it is a difficult field in which to do research, Jim gives examples of how he approached these questions based on his malaria research in both the recent and deep past. He then turns to how research on diseases works today and how historical epidemiology could help transform research, teaching, and academia as a whole moving forward. At the end, Jim discusses his recent book on intestinal diseases and how his research was different and similar based on environmental, ecological, and social factors that shaped its impact.

Svenn-Erik Mamelund (OsloMet) joins Merle and Lee to discuss his work. The first part of the interview focuses on Svenn-Erik’s research as a historical demographer focusing on the 1918 influenza pandemic, and he shares some of the findings about the differential effects of the pandemic on certain groups in the population. In the second half, the conversation moves to discuss Svenn-Erik’s experiences using his research to influence policy in the context of the Covid pandemic, and more broadly conducting outreach. Svenn-Erik shares some of his ideas and suggestions about both policy and outreach. 

Fore additional material click here.

Dora Vargha (University of Exeter) talks to Merle and Lee about her work on polio epidemics after World War Two in Hungary. After unpacking the basic information on polio’s longer history, Dora discusses how polio struck Hungary during the 1950s and the way in which vaccines were introduced that stopped the epidemics by the 1960s. She uses polio as a lens to reveal some of the shifting gaps in the Iron Curtain, where east and west worked together to stop these deadly epidemics. Dora then talks about how her work on polio has led her to reconceptualize how epidemics are traditionally seen as ending, along with what this idea might reveal about the so-called end of Covid.

Nathan Crowe (U. of North Carolina-Wilmington) comes on the podcast to talk about the life and career of Joshua Lederberg, a key figure in various fields including biology, genetics, and disease from just after World War Two until his death in 2008. Nathan first sketches out Lederberg’s background and his early career, including his work that received a Nobel Prize in 1958 when he was in his mid-30s. He then talks to Merle and Lee about how Lederberg transformed his new status into various public science and governmental policy roles, which also expanded the topics he worked on to include exobiology and diseases among others. At the end, Nathan discusses how Lederberg is remembered now and what his legacy is for infectious diseases today.

Urmi Engineer Willoughby (Pitzer College) joins the Infectious Historians to discuss Yellow Fever, with a focus on New Orleans over the course of the 19th century. Urmi first talks about the biological, the environmental, and human factors that shaped the spread of Yellow Fever from Africa to the Americas across the last few centuries. She then moves on to discuss its particular importance in the city of New Orleans with its differential effects on inhabitants depending on race and class in particular. Finally, she talks about questions of immunized people who survived Yellow Fever along with the ways in which her work could be used in other times and places, including today during Covid.

John Mulhall (Harvard University) joins the Infectious Historians to talk about the famous medieval translation movement and his own work on late antique texts. John first talks about what the translation movement was (and was not) along with how it worked and why it is so central to histories of medicine, science, and philosophy. In the second part of the episode, John turns to his own work on late ancient medical texts that were innovative in their understanding of medicine, disease, and especially plague as reactions to events happening in the world. At the end, he reflects upon what these new texts will mean for histories of the plague.

Khary Polk (Amherst College) joins the Infectious Historians to talk about his recent book on African-American workers in the US military, particularly in the context of their perceived immunity to certain infectious diseases such as Yellow Fever. The conversation touches upon several related topics, such as patriotism and gender roles in the military. Khary also describes how racial thinking shifted over time, and how African-American troops were (mis-)treated within the military over the first half of the twentieth century. The conversation concludes with the potential links between Khary’s research and the Covid pandemic

Richard McKay (University of Cambridge) talks to Merle and Lee about his work on the history of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, with a particular focus on Patient Zero and the history of the disease. After speaking about the problematic idea of the term Patient Zero, including its chance development, he discusses the early history of the epidemic and its popularization in broader public culture. He then turns to how these public perceptions of HIV/AIDS, and Covid, shape policy responses to disease along with some possible ways forward for historians to engage in public work in the future.

Stephanie Marciniak (Penn State University) joins Merle and Lee to discuss some of the fascinating developments in studying historical diseases from a scientific perspective: ancient DNA and more broadly paleogenetics. Stephanie provides some context for this research approach, before touching upon several related topics: the process of researching ancient DNA, the diseases that we can (or cannot) identify in human remains, some of the research questions that interest ancient DNA scientists, and a few issues concerning numbers of remains and of positive identifications of disease.

Janet Kay (Princeton University) talks to Merle and Lee for a special episode about preparing to teach her “Art & Archaeology of Plague” during the upcoming Spring 2021 semester. She discusses her planning for the broad chronological range of her course that runs from the Plague of Athens (c. 430 BCE) to Covid-19, while introducing Plague Simulations, an innovative set of assignments, and several guest lectures by colleagues. Janet then talks about why she thought this was a perfect time to offer a course like this and how she hopes it will help students think about disease and pandemics of the past while reflecting on our world today. At the end, she promises to come back at the end of the semester and talk about how the course went.

For more content related to the episode, click here.

Lukas Engelmann (University of Edinburgh) joins Merle and Lee to discuss the history of epidemiology. The conversation begins by thinking about epidemiology as a discipline as well as the gap between the discipline and scholars who use epidemiology. After discussing the development of epidemiology, including in the context of Covid-19, the interview moves to reflect upon infectious disease models, which have become especially popular in the recent pandemic. Some of the advantages and disadvantages of models are discussed, as well as some of the different approaches in how to evaluate them.

Adia Benton (Northwestern University) talks to Merle and Lee about the West African Ebola outbreak in 2014 and why that disease in particular has terrified Western audiences since the late 20th century. After discussing the basics on what Ebola is, where it was discovered, and where it is found today, Adia expands upon its recent large outbreak in West Africa. She then examines why so little time was spent on caring for people who got sick with it and why Ebola has such a powerful sway over popular imagination. She then outlines what she calls racial immuno-logic before reflecting on Ebola and Covid at the end of the episode.

Chinmay Tumbe (Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad) talks to Merle and Lee about his new book, The Age of Pandemics, that reveals the story of how three pandemics - cholera, plague and influenza - have significantly affected India over the course of the long 19th century, resulting in episodes of mass mortality. He first discusses some background on all three pandemics and then turns to why they have not had significant historical scholarship on them over the last century. Chinmay then offers thoughts on new ways to approach the history of pandemics moving forward. At the end, he turns to the process of writing the book during Covid.

Guy Beiner (Ben-Gurion University of the Negev) talks to Merle and Lee about his work on the memory and forgetting of the 1918 Influenza Pandemic. Guy first provides background about the impact of the Influenza Pandemic and offers an introduction to memory studies and social forgetting while pointing to problems with concepts such as collective memory. During the discussion Guy examines how historical events are remembered, then surveys the different ways academics and the public have discussed the 1918 Influenza in the past century. He highlights key moments that increased attention to the topic, such as the publication of Alfred Crosby’s book on the topic or the 1968 “Hong Kong Flu”. Finally, Guy reflects upon the most recent wave of attention to the 1918 pandemic during the present-day Covid pandemic.

John McNeill (Georgetown University) speaks with Merle and Lee about the changes to environmental and disease history over the last half century. After laying out his definition of environmental history, John discusses the background of the field, then reflects on how different chronological and geographical fields use sources along with how this may change moving forward. Following the previous episode, the question of agency of non-humans is raised again. The conversation touches upon other issues as well - collaboration, how it works and how it may change in the discipline of history. The question of engaging public audiences for example through writing for non-specialists, or creating podcasts and documentaries.

For additional details and readings, visit the episode's page on our website!

Susan Jones (University of Minnesota) talks to Merle and Lee about the role of animals in the spread of diseases and how these diseases can spill over from animals to humans. After laying out some background on the topic, she discusses her new work on “Plague Homelands” in Soviet central Asia during the 20th century. Susan talks about how the Soviet state first attempted to eliminate and then control the spread of plague in various regions, with the implications for people, animals, and the environment. At the end, she reflects upon how her unique background, a doctorate in veterinary medicine in addition to a doctorate in the history of science, shapes the questions she asks about historical sources and animals.

A.J. Herrmann (Director of Policy for Mayor Quinton Lucas of Kansas City, Missouri) speaks with Merle and Lee about one of their key ideas, the diversity of local experiences during a pandemic, tying it to the present-day experience of Covid in Kansas City since the beginning of the pandemic. AJ begins by laying out the complex regional administrative and political situation of Kansas City, which straddles two states and multiple counties. He then moves on to a discussion of the city’s roll out of its first Covid policies in March and the responses and problems it encountered, as the city adjusted to new realities. At the end, AJ discusses communicating these policies to the citizens of the city and plans to prepare for potential vaccines.

For additional content visit our website!

Katie Foss (Middle Tennessee State University) talks to Merle and Lee about her recently published book on epidemics in the media and collective memory in U.S. history from the early 18th century to the mid-20th century. Katie discusses the changes in media technology and how this shifted the coverage of epidemics across these two centuries. She then turns to how the media plays a key role in shaping narratives along with governments and academic research. The conversation also discusses the media’s role in shaping long-term memories of epidemics and diseases. Finally, Katie discusses what it was like to finish a book on epidemics during the COVID pandemic.

David Pickel, PhD Candidate at Stanford University and Director of Excavations, La Villa Romana di Poggio Gramignano Archaeological Project, Lugnano in Teverina, Italy sits down with Merle and Lee to talk about his research on malaria in the ancient world from both a local and a global perspective. He discusses his ongoing archaeological excavation of a child cemetery, which may have been used specifically for victims of malaria. The conversation then turns to how and why historians suggest malaria had a starring role in stopping Attila the Hun and malaria’s use in the fall of Rome narrative. Finally, he reflects upon the new collaborative work on malaria published across various disciplines recently.

Further reading for the episode.

Further reading recommendations for this episode.

Link to additional material on the Infectious Historians website.

Jacob Steere-Williams (College of Charleston) discusses the role of typhoid fever in Victorian (19th century) England as a key reason for the development of epidemiology. The chat begins with some background about typhoid and its effects along with comparisons to other diseases such as cholera and plague. Jacob then surveys how epidemiology developed over the course of the late 19th century and its place in history, discussing how it has been forgotten compared to bacteriology and Germ Theory. At the end, Jacob briefly chats about the place of epidemiology today and the place of England in the study of public health more broadly. In the post-interview section, Merle and Lee have a meta discussion where they reflect upon the numerous episodes over the last few months about late 19th century diseases, pandemics, and public health and what the future of the history of disease might look like.

Visit our website for the episode's additional readings.