
Is This Democracy
By Lilliana Mason, Thomas Zimmer, and Perry Bacon Jr.
Welcome to Is This Democracy, the podcast where we discuss the ongoing conflict over how much democracy, and for whom, there should be in America.
Hosted by Lilliana Mason and Thomas Zimmer
Hosted by Lilliana Mason and Thomas Zimmer

14. The Reactionary Crusade Against Trans Rights Is an Assault on Democracy – and Some Thoughts on the Idea of a “National Divorce”
14. The Reactionary Crusade Against Trans Rights Is an Assault on Democracy – and Some Thoughts on the Idea of a “National Divorce”
Is This DemocracyFeb 23, 2023
00:00
01:04:01

18. The War on Public Education Is Escalating – with Jennifer Berkshire
18. The War on Public Education Is Escalating – with Jennifer Berkshire
We are in the midst of an escalating rightwing assault on public education in America. It comes in the form of an attempted authoritarian takeover of schools and universities, in hundreds of bills establishing state censorship, banning books, purging anything that dares to dissent from a white nationalist understanding of the nation’s past or present from the classroom, the libraries, the curriculum – but also as a radical push for school privatization, a dimension that has received far less attention.
None of this is new – all of it is in line with the decades-long conservative fight against public education that has been central to the modern conservative political project since the beginning. And it also doesn’t happen in a vacuum, but is very much an integral part of the broader attempt to roll back the post-1960s civil rights order. In many ways, the struggle over public education is at the center of the overall political conflict right now.
I can think of no one better equipped to help us unpack all of this than Jennifer Berkshire. She is a journalist and teaches journalism at Yale and Boston College, she writes about education for many major outlets, including The Nation, The New Republic, and the The Baffler, and she hosts the wonderful podcast “Have You Heard,” in which she and her co-host Jack Schneider dissect all things public education.
We cover a lot of ground in this conversation: We dissect the Right’s current attack on public education, and what they want to replace it with; we talk about the underlying rightwing political project of maintaining traditional hierarchies of wealth, race, gender, and religion, which sees public education as dangerous, because it can potentially act as an engine of progressive change and contribute to questioning and leveling those traditional hierarchies; we tackle the combination of both state authoritarianism and radical privatization that characterizes the Right’s approach to education; we discuss the long history of modern conservatism’s attack on public education, from the 1950s through today; and we also, crucially, talk about the Democratic side of this story: How and why Democrats adopted a neoliberal idea of education primarily serving as an investment in “human capital”, and why that has opened the door for the kind of undermining of public education the Right is attempting.
Jennifer Berkshire on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BisforBerkshire
Have You Heard Podcast: https://www.haveyouheardpodcast.com/
Jack Schneider and Jennifer Berkshire, A Wolf at the Schoolhouse Door: The Dismantling of Public Education and the Future of School, The New Press 2023 (paperback edition) https://www.wolfattheschoolhousedoor.com/
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Mar 16, 202301:15:24

17. There Is No “Free Speech Crisis” On Campus – and the Latest in Fox News vs Democracy
17. There Is No “Free Speech Crisis” On Campus – and the Latest in Fox News vs Democracy
Lily and Thomas dissect the “free speech crisis on campus” discourse. The pervasive “free speech crisis” narrative wants us to believe that liberty and freedom in this country are being threatened by “woke” radicals imposing an ever-more authoritarian “cancel culture,” a culture of censoriousness on college life and on the nation in general. According to a never-ending barrage of op-eds and editorials in leading mainstream papers, this is a national emergency in desperate need of intervention. But not only does this diagnosis stand in stark contrast to what we actually experience on campus (we are both college professors, after all, so we can report from the front lines!). We also dive into the survey/polling data as well as the anecdotes that self-proclaimed free speech advocates present as supposedly irrefutable evidence – and it simply does not hold up to scrutiny. Moreover, the “free speech crisis” discourse is entirely ahistorical, conveniently ignoring that the same complaints have been advanced by conservatives for decades – and that mainstream outlets have elevated these resentments to the level of a national moral panic before, notably in the “political correctness” craze of the early 1990s. So, what is actually going on here? The country is in the midst of a profound renegotiation of speech norms and of who gets to define them. And that can be a messy process at times, making a lot of people, especially those in elite positions, uncomfortable. But it’s not “cancel culture.” In a multiracial, pluralistic society, it is necessary. And from a democratic perspective, it is progress. – Finally, we talk about the latest revelations coming out of the ongoing Dominion Voting Systems defamation lawsuit against Fox News: We discuss the relationship between Fox News and the conservative base; the ways in which Fox News can amplify reactionary resentment, but is beholden to what the base wants; and the rightwing media machine as an integral part of the reactionary political project, something to which there is simply no equivalent on the “Left.”
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Mar 10, 202301:11:32

16. A Conversation on Critical Race Theory and Democracy - with Victor Ray (Part II)
16. A Conversation on Critical Race Theory and Democracy - with Victor Ray (Part II)
We are in the midst of an escalating moral panic around “Critical Race Theory” that is serving, across Republican-led states, as justification to censor and purge anything that dares to dissent from a white nationalist understanding of America’s past or present. That is the context in which Victor Ray published his book “On Critical Race Theory: Why It Matters and Why You Should Care.” Victor Ray is a sociologist, a professor at the Universitxy of Iowa, and you’ll hear in this conversation that he really is an incredibly thoughtful observer of race and racism in America. In his book, Victor does an incredible job to make CRT, this complex body of thought, the intellectual traditions on which it builds, the key insights and criticisms it offers, accessible. This, to me is, the best introduction to CRT. And it is much more than that, actually, it is a broad reflection on structural/systemic racism, on race in America and how it shapes all aspects of life in this country. If you haven’t yet, go back and listen to Part I, in which we talked about Victor’s personal story and how it relates to CRT, about what CRT actually is, when it emerged, why it emerged. We pick it up right there in Part II: We continue to talk about the actual CRT (not the demonized bogeyman), different strands and debates within the field, its critique of racial progress narratives. And then we do get into the reactionary moral panic around CRT, how and why it took off in the fall of 2020; the political, social, and cultural context in which it could be so successful; why it’s useful to compare the rightwing crusade against CRT to climate change denialism; and how we should think about ways to counter this reactionary campaign. And then, finally, we also talk about what Victor expects going forward, where he sees the country going over the next few decades – and we even manage to end on a somewhat hopeful note.
A link to “On Critical Race Theory”
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Mar 08, 202357:51

15. A Conversation on Critical Race Theory and Democracy - with Victor Ray (Part I)
15. A Conversation on Critical Race Theory and Democracy - with Victor Ray (Part I)
We are in the midst of a reactionary moral panic over “Critical Race Theory” that is being used by Republicans across the country to justify an escalating assault on academic freedom and attempts to stifle, censor, and ban any dissent from the white nationalist patriarchal worldview, anything that dares to upset reactionary sensibilities. This manufactured panic took off in the fall of 2020 – not coincidentally in the aftermath of the mobilization of civil society after the murder of George Floyd, as it is intimately tied to the ongoing racial counter-reckoning.
The Right talks a lot about “CRT,” but never in good faith, never as anything but an evil, “un-American” plot to undermine the nation. What CRT actually is, however, is a rich, complex intellectual tradition and body of thought that can help us better understand race and racism in America. That’s why it’s worth grappling with CRT in earnest. And there is no one better to help us do just that than Victor Ray. Victor is the F. Wendell Miller Associate Professor in the Departments of Sociology and Criminology and African American Studies at the University of Iowa – and he is one of the most thoughtful analysts, observers, commentators on racism. Last summer, he published a book titled “On Critical Race Theory: Why it Matters and Why You Should Care.” And everybody should read it, as it is the best introduction into CRT we know, and actually a lot more than that: It is a broad reflection on structural/systemic/institutional racism, what it is, how it works, how it produces the discriminatory outcomes that shape life in this country.
Please note: This is Part I of our conversation with Victor Ray, focusing on his personal story, how it relates to CRT, how CRT relates to his personal life; on what CRT actually is, when it emerged, what problem it was supposed to be an answer to; and on the kind of diagnosis of America’s past and present it offers. A (longer) Part II will follow early next week, on the CRT critique of racial progress narratives; why the reactionary moral panic around CRT has been so successful, and how we can counter it; and what Victor expects going forward, where he sees the country going over the next few decades.
A link to “On Critical Race Theory”
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Mar 02, 202331:02

14. The Reactionary Crusade Against Trans Rights Is an Assault on Democracy – and Some Thoughts on the Idea of a “National Divorce”
14. The Reactionary Crusade Against Trans Rights Is an Assault on Democracy – and Some Thoughts on the Idea of a “National Divorce”
After an unexpected hiatus, we are back! And we focus on what is undoubtedly one of the most pressing democracy and civil rights issues in America today: The escalating assault on trans rights, the reactionary crusade against one of the country’s most vulnerable communities. We talk about the situation of trans people in the U.S. and do our best to address the confusion, misinformation, and anxiety that are constantly being weaponized. We look at the unprecedented wave of anti-trans bills, the efforts to legislate trans people out of the public square and out of existence, and why all this is happening now; explore the longer-term historical context of crusades against the LGBTQ community in general and examine what’s changed from the more recent, and mostly unsuccessful, wave of “bathroom bills” from just a few years ago to what we are currently witnessing; and situate this attack on trans people in the broader context of the reactionary attempts to roll back the post-1960s rights revolution. We also explore both the tactical, opportunistic as well as the ideological reasons for why the attack on trans people is, even by the standards of today’s rightwing politics, so particularly aggressive and vile. Finally, we discuss why much of the mainstream media coverage has decided not to present this as the struggle for equality and civil rights protections it is, but is overwhelmingly focused on the entirely misleading idea that too many kids and teenagers are being pushed into transitioning, that there is a “trans problem” that constitutes a national emergency: A coverage that exemplifies the worst of neutrality theater journalism and displays all the hallmarks of the ways in which an ostensibly liberal media covered past moral panics – We also look at the idea of a “national divorce”, of dissolving the country into red states and blue states, that, interestingly, quite a few people on both sides seem to find attractive, at least in theory. We discuss what to make of this “national divorce” discourse, whether or not to take it seriously, and why it is predicated on a misleading view of America’s political geography that is not so much shaped by “red states vs blue states,” but by a sharp urban vs rural divide. We end on a rather sober note: While a “national divorce” cannot be the solution, the fact that a shrinking minority of white conservatives is consistently being enabled to hold on to power against the will of the majority of voters does indeed constitute a rapidly worsening political crisis that will have to be resolved - one way or the other.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Feb 23, 202301:04:01

13. The Murder of Tyre Nichols, the Authoritarian Takeover of Florida Education, and the Case *for* Teaching “CRT”
13. The Murder of Tyre Nichols, the Authoritarian Takeover of Florida Education, and the Case *for* Teaching “CRT”
We share our thoughts on the murder of Tyre Nichols, on why we need to grapple with structural, systemic racism and how it produces discriminatory outcomes, and why the lack of accountability for police departments is a democratic crisis – We then focus on Ron DeSantis’ authoritarian takeover of the education system in Florida: We discuss why the rejection of the AP African American Studies course is emblematic of an escalating assault on public education, of a reactionary rollback of all attempts to establish a more gender and race inclusive education; we talk about the longer-term context of the Right’s disdain for public education and how these recurring curriculum or “history wars” are really conflicts over who gets to define American national identity and who gets to draw the boundaries of what counts as America and American; and we emphasize how this is not just a Florida story, as Republicans are trying to mandate a white nationalist understanding of the past and the present, and censor any critical dissent, wherever they are in charge – Finally, we make the case *for* teaching the importance of structural, systemic racism, of race and gender as organizing principles of American life: Because it is the only way the get the American story right and develop an adequate understanding of U.S. history and society; but also because a society that mandates a version of history and national identity that privileges white conservative Christian sensibilities and perspectives while ignoring or degrading all others will not be an egalitarian multiracial, pluralistic democracy.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Feb 03, 202301:28:37

12. Six Burning Questions About the State of Democracy
12. Six Burning Questions About the State of Democracy
We asked for your questions – and you delivered. We tried our best to answer some of them. The result is a wide-ranging discussion on a bunch of crucial issues, including: Why “economic anxiety” is not what fuels Trumpism or the rightwing radicalization, and why the eagerness with which some people cling to this narrative despite all the empirical evidence to the contrary is indicative of a tendency to sanitize the political discourse; how Democrats should react to the GOP’s radical abandonment of all norms, and what the pitfalls of “hardball” politics (or the lack thereof) are; the inter-and transnational dimension of the reactionary counter-mobilization against democracy, and how the political struggle in the U.S. relates to the situation across the “West” and beyond; how we would address people who are frustrated by the state of national politics, don’t think their voice matters, and might believe both sides are the same anyway; and finally, what myths about America’s past or present we would like to dispel once and for all. Oh, and we also talk a little bit about how we got to know each other and how the podcast came together.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Jan 27, 202301:01:48

11. America’s Racial (Counter-) Reckoning – and some reflections on the latest “scandal” involving classified documents
11. America’s Racial (Counter-) Reckoning – and some reflections on the latest “scandal” involving classified documents
Every year, MLK Day brings a lot of shallow proclamations of admiration for a man whose actual vision and political project are often sanitized and sterilized to such extent that even Republicans whose mission it is to undo any of the racial progress since the 1960s will happily (and shamelessly) “celebrate” the legacy of Martin Luther King. But the racial reckoning King envisioned has never happened. It seemed possible, perhaps, in the summer of 2020, during the mass protests after the public murder of George Floyd. But it never materialized. We dive deep into the reasons behind the unprecedented mobilization of 2020 – and examine the factors that explain why there has been so little structural change since: the reactionary counter-mobilization on the Right, the widespread longing among white liberals and centrists for a return to pre-Trump “normalcy,” the rise of “popularist” arguments within the Democratic Party that have discouraged any serious focus on race and racism. We also discuss how racial attitudes in the U.S. have changed recently, and why that, ultimately, might be reason for a tiny bit of optimism – Also: Our take on the latest “scandal” involving classified documents, and what the news media coverage reveals about the fallacies of “both sides” journalism that mistakes “neutrality” for objectivity and values “balance” over accuracy.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Jan 20, 202301:12:37

10. Republican Extremism, MAGA Nihilism, and the rise of Ron DeSantis
10. Republican Extremism, MAGA Nihilism, and the rise of Ron DeSantis
It took 15 votes, and in the end, the insurrectionists finally captured the House: Our takeaways from how the speaker drama played out and what has transpired since, what it all tells us about the Republican Party, and how the rightwing fringe has moved to the center of conservative politics – Nihilism. Chaos agents. Burning it all down. To many observers, the speaker spectacle confirmed that’s basically all there is to the MAGA Right. We discuss the “nihilism” interpretation, why it risks obscuring the ideological core of the rightwing political project, and why it falls short of explaining what, exactly, holds all the different factions on the Right together – We need to talk about Ron DeSantis: According to Never Trump conservatives and quite a few centrists, DeSantis is a less dangerous, more “normal” alternative to Trump. We dive into his actual record as governor of Florida, which is staunchly anti-democratic and concerningly authoritarian, and discuss why “He is better/worse than Trump” is not a very helpful framework to look at DeSantis and the political project he is pursuing.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Jan 13, 202301:12:50

9. Chaos in the House! And What We Expect from American Democracy in 2023
9. Chaos in the House! And What We Expect from American Democracy in 2023
We are witnessing a historic spectacle in the House. A deep dive into the Republican inability to elect a speaker from all angles: How to explain it, what the fault lines are, why it’s misleading to present the McCarthy camp as “moderates,” what it means for government and governance going forward – Whatever happened to “moderate” Republicans? We look at the case of Elise Stefanik and reflect on the lure of Trumpism, the relationship between opportunism and ideology, and the personal dynamics of a radicalization that is shifting the GOP ever further to the right – We look back, we look ahead: There is a striking sense of optimism among commentators from the left all the way to the center-right who mostly agree that 2022 was a good year for democracy and 2023 will be even better. We are more skeptical. Our review of what happened last year, and our expectations for what is to come next.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Jan 05, 202301:13:15

8. How Do We Save Democracy from Donald Trump? (And a proper dissection of the terms “culture wars” and “identity politics”)
8. How Do We Save Democracy from Donald Trump? (And a proper dissection of the terms “culture wars” and “identity politics”)
The January 6 Committee is recommending prosecution: Justice is (maybe) coming for Donald Trump. We discuss the larger implications of this decision, the potential pitfalls, and the role of legal procedures in solving a political problem like Trumpism – Now that the Committee has finished its work, we reflect on what it has and has not achieved, about the story the Committee has decided to tell, and on the dangers of focusing too narrowly on Trump as the threat to democracy – Culture wars! Identity politics! We dissect the origins, meaning, and political implications of these terms, assess their utility to make sense of the current situation, and discuss how they have been weaponized in service of reactionary political projects to obscure more than they illuminate.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Dec 23, 202201:22:56

7. We Need to Talk About Centrism
7. We Need to Talk About Centrism
A deep dive into “centrism,” inspired by Kyrsten Sinema leaving the Democratic Party: What is centrism (as an ideology, a political project, a brand)? Who are the centrists? And what do they actually want? – The centrist critique of the democracy discourse: Why do certain centrists reject the focus on the crisis of American democracy? What kind of democracy do centrists envision for the country? – Anti-“Left” centrism: The centrist critique of “wokeism” and the reactionary sensibilities of the centrist mind.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Dec 16, 202201:16:55

6. Where to Put Trump in the History of Modern Conservatism (and Why Republicans Don’t Do “Soul-Searching” After Lost Elections) – with Nicole Hemmer!
6. Where to Put Trump in the History of Modern Conservatism (and Why Republicans Don’t Do “Soul-Searching” After Lost Elections) – with Nicole Hemmer!
What the Georgia runoff tells us about American politics, why Republicans mostly stuck with Walker, and why “hypocrisy” is really not a very useful (albeit well-deserved) criticism of conservative politics – What to expect next from the GOP, and why our default assumption based on the evidence of the past several decades of Republican politics should not be “soul-searching” leading to moderation, but further escalation – How to situate the rise of Trumpism in the history of modern conservatism, why Trump is not an aberration, but the manifestation of long-standing anti-democratic tendencies, and why we still need to grapple with a significant radicalization of conservative politics in recent years.
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This episode was produced by Connor Lynch
Dec 09, 202201:20:45

5. What Does “Democracy” Even Mean, And Why Conservatives Don’t Want to Be Conservatives Anymore (Oh, and the meeting of white supremacists at Mar-a-Lago)
5. What Does “Democracy” Even Mean, And Why Conservatives Don’t Want to Be Conservatives Anymore (Oh, and the meeting of white supremacists at Mar-a-Lago)
Trump hosted a leading Holocaust denier and white power activist for dinner: What to take away from this latest reminder of who Trump is and what the Republican base wants, and why we must not be lulled into a false sense of security by the ridiculousness of it all – And we dive deep into the question of how to best capture and describe the defining political conflict: Why we are experiencing a counter-mobilization, rather than a backlash; by reactionaries, rather than conservatives; against egalitarian multiracial, pluralistic democracy, rather than simply democracy.
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Dec 02, 202201:07:60

4. The Rogue Court, the Threat of Rightwing Political Violence – and Discussing Politics Over Thanksgiving
4. The Rogue Court, the Threat of Rightwing Political Violence – and Discussing Politics Over Thanksgiving
Conservative justices are leaking decisions, but more importantly, they have made the Supreme Court the spearhead of a reactionary counter-mobilization against democracy: What is to be done about a Rogue Court? – The Assault on the LGBTQ community in Colorado Springs: America’s gun cult(ure), the escalating rightwing demonization of vulnerable groups, and why the reactions to the latest shooting are indicative of a significant radicalization of conservative politics – Thanksgiving politics talk: Here are some political statements that you might encounter over the weekend, and how we think you should respond. And a little bonus discussion at the end: Why it’s absolutely fair and necessary to judge people, even polite people, by their politics.
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Nov 25, 202201:13:01

3. Elon Musk, Donald Trump – and Should Journalists Be Rooting for Democracy?
3. Elon Musk, Donald Trump – and Should Journalists Be Rooting for Democracy?
The fate of Twitter: The democratic stakes of having so much of our media infrastructure in the hands of billionaires; the fraud relationship between the libertarian-to-far-right tech oligarchy and democracy; Twitter’s importance as an essential part of the virtual public square – Midterms fallout: The major storylines and key narratives that have emerged; the deepening chasm between “red” and “blue” America; and why Donald Trump remains an acute threat – The relationship between journalism and democracy: Should the media be explicitly pro-democracy? What would this look like in practice? And what does it mean to prioritize “neutrality” when democracy itself has become a partisan issue?
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Nov 18, 202201:14:57

2. The State of Democracy After the Midterms (Still bad; Could have been way worse)
2. The State of Democracy After the Midterms (Still bad; Could have been way worse)
A big-picture reflection on the midterms (what else!) and what they can tell us about the state of American democracy – Why the result, while heartening, doesn’t simply prove that “the system works” and why democracy is still very much in danger – What to make of Republican elites clamoring for DeSantis and why Trumpism without Trump is far more likely than a pivot to the center - What Democrats can learn and why the idea of neatly separating “kitchen table” from “culture war” issues is deeply misleading - And what’s behind the flawed mainstream media coverage that was all too eager to adopt rightwing talking points about a “red wave.”
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Nov 11, 202201:08:49

Episode 1 - November 4, 2022
Episode 1 - November 4, 2022
Our mission statement: Podcasting about a democracy on the brink – Joe Biden says democracy is on the ballot: Is he right? – Midterm primer: Why the election is close (when maybe it shouldn’t be?) and what people are voting for; media coverage; Democratic messaging; and what worries us most going forward.
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Nov 04, 202201:21:05