But I Digress: How Writers Make it Work

Len Kuntz is the author of five books, most recently the personal essay collection, THIS IS ME, BEING BRAVE, out now from Everytime Press. He won’t want me to say this because he’ll thinks it sounds “braggy” [using air quotes] but he’s written more than 1,200 stories, along with five novels and most recently, THIS IS ME, BEING BRAVE. You can find more of his writing on his blog.  

Having grown up poor, Len worked and saved obsessively until, at the age of 46, he was able to retire to the country and become a full-time writer. This is his story. 

Whitney Durmick -- startup whisperer by day, genre-bending existentialist writer by night -- talks to me about her formerly itinerant existence, and how she has confounded the expectations of the traditional publishing industry by striking out on her own. Her first book, HALF WILD: A prayer for a generation of roaming malcontents, came out in June 2022. Having once-upon-a-time dreamt of becoming an investigative reporter (inspired in part by her ongoing love of trench coats), Whitney investigated the options of the self-published writer, plumbed the heights of social networking (in-person as well as digital), and now shares her experiences and the excitement of a new book (which you can order here). 

Robert Vaughan is an indie publisher and writer whose most recent book, Askew, can be ordered here. If found a lot of his opinions fascinating, especially coming from someone who sits on both sides of the table. Among his bits of advice: to figure out where to pitch your stuff, find three or four writers you like and with whom you feel some commonality, and pitch the places that are publishing them. (This seems obvious, but most people go about it exactly the other way around -- they find publishers or agents they like and then try to figure out which writers they work with.) He also said something great about genres -- that they're great for bookstores (but not necessarily for writers!) 

You can order her most recent book, White Van (Unlikely Books) here. 

You've probably never heard of Davis Schneiderman, and that's fine with him. As he says during this podcast, "it all ends in anonymity and obsolescence, and we have to come to terms with that." 

His forthcoming story collection There's No Appropriate Emoji (MadHat Press) came out in May 2022, and can be ordered here. Throughout this podcast, he offers a number of important insights about the life of a contemporary writer (such as that if you engage in too many different types of things "people don't know what to do with you" which makes it harder to sell your work). He is "against earnestness and nostalgia" and isn't writing in order to get laid. ("It's words on a page -- it's not me.")

There's a bracing quality to his point of view, and it's also reassuring -- if you can convince yourself to let go of the romantic fantasy of the "successful writer." Comparing the thriving indie press scene to a radio dial, he says, "I'm glad those other channels exist on the lower end of the dial because those are the channels I really like to listen to." Schneiderman invites us to write for the pleasure of writing, and in collaboration with other likeminded artists, because the work in the moment is really all we can aspire to. 

Schneiderman is a multimedia artist and writer and the author and editor of eight books, including the novels Drain (TriQuarterly/Northwestern), Abecedarium (Chiasmus), BLANK: A Novel, [SIC], and INK. (Jaded Ibis); the co-edited collections Retaking the Universe: Williams S. Burroughs in the Age of Globalization (Pluto) and The Exquisite Corpse: Chance and Collaboration in Surrealism’s Parlor Game (Nebraska); as well as the audiocollage Memorials to Future Catastrophes (Jaded Ibis). His creative work has appeared in numerous publications including Fiction International, The Chicago Tribune, The Iowa Review, TriQuarterly, and Exquisite Corpse. He is Associate Dean of Faculty at Lake Forest College.

Alan Murray is the former editor of the Wall Street Journal digital, a pioneer in television business journalism, was recently head of Pew Research and for several years now the CEO of Fortune media and the author of the widely read daily email newsletter CEO Daily. Murray's most recent book, out May 10, 2022, is called Tomorrow's Capitalist.

As a publishing industry veteran, as well as a keen observer of the business world, Murray discusses the publishing industry, and the changes he's observed over the past three decades. 

Colin Dodds has several books to his name, including Ms. Never and Windfall. He’s made his living as a journalist, editor, copywriter and video producer. His work has appeared in Gothamist, The Washington Post and more than three hundred other publications. Colin’s poetry collection Spokes of an Uneven Wheel was published by Main Street Rag Publishing Company in 2018. He has also produced what I call writing-as-an-app -- his Forget This Good Thing I Just Said is a collection of aphorisms served up randomly by an app of the same name, and just might be the unwritten future of writing. 

In this podcast, Dodds talks about balancing family and financial responsibilities with the need to write, how his life matches up to his youthful fantasies of what it would be like to become a writer, and the place of self-publishing. He's well-placed to talk about that, having been published by independent publishers as well as having run a publishing company and having self-published as well. 

He offers interesting insights into book marketing and publicity -- "a book is exciting because it's new," he says at one point, explaining the lengthy publicity ramp-up for his forthcoming book, Pharoni. You can find all his books here.

TJ Beitelman is a writer and teacher who most recent books have been published by the prestigious Black Lawrence Press. We talk about the relationship he's developed with his publisher, the way he thinks of his audience, and how he makes a living. One of my favorite takeaways from this talk is TJ's assertion that, "everybody lucks into everything," which says a lot about his humility but also puts our efforts at getting published and making a living as writers into very good perspective.

Jenna Banks has written a book called I Love Me More: How to Find Happiness and Success through Self-Love, which she published through Braintrust Ink. Jenna walks us through the creation and marketing of this book, from how she decided to go the route of "hybrid" publishing, to how she chose this publisher over, to hiring a developmental editor and then a publicist, to how she uses social media to build her brand (and her audience), and how she intends to use this book as part of a business based on public speaking and workshops. 

Jenna offers us a clear-eyed view of the role book publishing can play in a broader marketing strategy, and the perspective not of someone who always wanted to be a writer, but rather of someone who sees the value of writing in that larger context, and is attuned to its financial aspects.

Abi Ishola's forthcoming novel Patience is a Subtle Thief (HarperCollins Via) is the opportunity for a great conversation about the immigrant experience, how Abi is using video to promote her book, and her concern of appearing to be "too urban" versus white resentment over the very few opportunities afforded marginalized people. When I raise the issue of white resentment, Abi says wisely that if you feel that way, if you resent these opportunities given to Blacks or women or whomever, you have to do what those same people have done and "power past your feelings of being marginalized" and just find a way to get it done. Well said, Abi Ishola! You can pre-order her novel Patience is a Subtle Thief here.

Ravi Shankar joins me to talk about his writing career, and what it's like sharing your name with one of the world's most famous musicians. Talk about imposter syndrome (inside joke for those who listen to the podcast). We also talk about his recently published memoir, Correctional, which you can and should order here. 

Vince Passaro is the author of the novel Crazy Sorrow, which you can order here. During this podcast we talk about the rare dinosaur that is Gordon Lish, when and if to pursue an MFA, the shallowness of most editors, his hatred of doing anything except writing, and how smaller presses are going to save literature. A few noteworthy bon mots:

• Most writers don't believe in the stature and the power of literature that [Lish] perceived and proclaimed and made vivid;
• Editors would rather have something easy and familiar than something challenging and new;
• Submitting books via Submittable is like sending your work into a shredder
• As a freelancer, whenever you get paid, it brings you back to broke.

Vince's criticism and essays have appeared in many prominent publications, including Harper’s Magazine, where he is a contributing editor, The Nation, The New York Times Sunday Magazine, The New York Times Book Review, Elle, Salon, and others, along with short fiction in such national magazines and literary journals as Esquire, GQ, Open City, Agni, Story, Boulevard, and Quarterly West. His first novel, Violence, Nudity, Adult Content, was published in 2002. He lives a few miles north of New York City in an old Huguenot town with his wife, son, and a smattering of film cameras, fountain pens, and other fellow-traveling refuse from the mid-20th century.   

You can find and buy her work here:

Her books include 

• In the Year of Long Division (1995), a collection published by Alfred A. Knopf. One of the last books edited there by Gordon Lish.

• Carrying the Body (2002), a novel published by Scribner.

• Further Adventures in the Restless Universe (2010), a collection published by Dzanc Books.

• The Secret Life of Objects (2012), an illustrated memoir published by Jaded Ibis.

• The Strange Case of Dr. Couney: How a Mysterious European Showman Saved Thousands of American Babies (2018), a biography published by Dutton.

Marcus Pactor’s new book is Begat Who Begat Who Begat (Astrophil Press). His first book, Vs. Death Noises, won the 2011 Subito Press Prize for Fiction. His story, “Megaberry Crunch” was selected for Best Small Fictions 2021. His work has most recently appeared in 3:AM Magazine and Juked. He lives and works in Jacksonville, Florida. 

Marcus has had a "day job" since the age of 15 -- now, his day job is as a university professor, but it's still a job-job. He says he's not doing the writing thing for the money -- "a job is for money. This is for something else," he says during our podcast. 

He doesn't seem to miss the ideal of a writer's community -- and notes that with the Internet and social media, you shouldn't have a hard time connecting with your favorite writer. 

Seidlinger is describes himself as a Filipino-American author; he has written My Pet Serial Killer, Dreams of Being, The Fun We’ve Had, and nine other books. His byline appears in such publications as Buzzfeed, Thrillist, and Publishers Weekly, and has led workshops at Catapult, Kettle Pond Writer’s Conference, and Sarah Lawrence. He is a co-founder and member of the arts collective, The Accomplices, and founder of the indie press, Civil Coping Mechanisms (CCM). He teaches at Portland State University and lives in Brooklyn, New York. His most recent book is RUNAWAYS: A WRITER’S DILEMMA, from Future Tense Books, and you can order it here.

You can buy her book Refuge, here.

C.J. Farley has written five novels and several biographies and other books of non-fiction. He’s also an executive editor at Audible. In this podcast, he talks about his role as s storyteller giving voice to the voiceless. He talks about writing young adult fiction with African American protagonists, and why he believes that’s crucially important. He also talks about the drive within to become a writer, and the necessity of organizing your life around that urge. He’s an amazing speaker with a truly brilliant mind. His most recent book is Zero O'clock, from Akashic books, and you can order it here.

Laura Zam is an author, speaker, certified trauma professional, and sexuality educator whose work focuses on sexual healing and preventing violation. During this podcast, we talk about her "triple-threat" career as an author, speaker and teacher, the way in which each of her activities feeds and support the others, and how she manages her social media presence. Her most recent book is The Pleasure Plan. 

Lance Olsen is a professor of English and writing at the University of Utah. He is also the author of fifteen novels, one hypermedia text, five nonfiction books, five short-story collections, a poetry chapbook, and two anti-textbooks about experimental writing, and most recently the novels My Red Heaven (Dzanc, 2020) and Skin Elegies (Dzanc, 2021). In other words, he's no dabbler.

We talk about small presses versus the New York publishing ecology, the fallacy of self-publishing, changes in the world of publishing, the role of literary agents, his former role with Fiction Collective 2 (FC2), and the function of universities and foundations as replacement for the medieval or Renaissance patron of the arts.    

We also talk about how writing is different from other art forms, and why we write (versus doing those other things). 

Sarah Kornfeld is the author of What Stella Sees, and the just-released The True, a narrative non-fiction that is being published in English, Romanian and French – each with its own ending (as we discuss during this podcast). She is also the founder of Rising Media Research, a research and consulting company that serves the ecosystem of the Creative Economy (museums, policymakers, guilds, and cultural institutions) – which Sarah notes is a $2.2 trillion ecosystem. 

In other words, Sarah is in a great position to talk about the ways in which writers can make it work, especially using new technology platforms that are easy to use and within anyone's reach. A couple of other notes from our discussion: 

• we need art to explain trauma, and we need trauma in order to create art. 
• the idea that artists have to live in poverty is a dangerous American concept that is all about controlling the artist; it is based on the premise that we are to be punished for being who we are and having an authentic take on life.
• artists are very susceptible to being conned, perhaps because they have a high degree of empathy, and perhaps because on some level we want to be conned. We want to believe the unbelievable.

Honestly, we should all have Alice LaPlante's career. We all can't, but we can all read her work and listen to her on this podcast.  

From his early work for a magazine intended as a manifestation of US "soft diplomacy" to his very recent novel, Absolute Unit, Nick Kolakowski knows a thing or two about publishing. Our discussion covers the use of blogging and other social media for marketing purposes, how small and independent presses punch above their weight, using Amazon reviews and Goodreads, and what the growing market share for e-books portends for writers.

Rick Moody is a prolific and important American writer, most well-known for his novel The Ice Storm, which was turned into a movie of the same name starring my absolute heartthrob Sigourney Weaver and my man-crush, Kevin Kline. He is also the author of numerous other novels, story collections, novellas, and memoirs. His most recent book is The Long Accomplishment: A Memoir of Hope and Struggle in Matrimony; published by Henry Holt. 

Rick and I spent a semester together in graduate school and managed to stay in touch over many, many years, although our lives took us in different directions and we haven’t actually seen each other in decades. During this podcast, we talk about the importance of developing writing habits to thwart the tendency of everything and everyone in the world to put stuff between the writer and her work; we talk about the idea of writers and audiences, social networks, avoiding intrusive literary influences, and the manifestation of spirituality in work that isn't overtly spiritual. 

Sam is the author most recently of Ravenous -- Otto Warburg, the Nazis, and the Search for the Cancer-Diet Connection, published by Liveright, an imprint of W.W. Norton & Co. He has written for The New York Times Magazine, Wired, The Atlantic, NewYorker.com, and elsewhere. He is also on the faculty of the MA in Science Writing and MA in Writing programs at Johns Hopkins University.

Michele Herman is a poet, novelist, short story writer and adopted New Yorker. She has been gracious enough to share how she has managed to live in one of the most expensive cities on earth without either a trust fund, a Wall Street salary or a sugar daddy -- all while raising a family, being active in the various communities she calls her own, and living, through dint of resolve and discipline, a creative life of the mind. 

A couple of things stand out to me from our conversation: she is a born craftsperson, and if she hadn't been a writer, she might just have become a cobbler; and she says "there's no getting around" the long apprenticeship involved in becoming a writer. We also discuss the travails of finding/not finding an agent, and working with an independent publisher (and all the grunt work that entails). She's inspiring in her pragmatism and living proof that you can make your own way in the world of writing literature.

She has two books coming out in early 2022: Save the Village, from Regal House Publishing, and Just Another Jack, a chapbook of poetry from Finishing Line Press. 

Lincoln MIchel, author of the forthcoming The Body Scout (Hachette Book Group - Orbit imprint), talks about the joys and perils of writing genre fiction, the economics of writing, Robert Coover, the Singularity, and how the pace of technology adoption influences his writing. You can preorder his The Body Scout here. 

Sayeeda Copeland discusses the challenges of writing while being a mother to two boys aged 9 and 2 respectively, her literary influences and life inspirations, her choice of pseudonym (Sayeeda Copeland is a pseudonym) and the economic choices she's making on a daily basis. While most of the writers on this podcast are already far along their career arcs, Sayeeda is still ascending, and she shares the challenges she faces. You can contribute to Sayeeda's GoFundMe, which is one of the modern ways she's financing her writing career.    

Critically acclaimed fiction writer Adam Wilson discusses his process for writing Sensation Machines, his second novel, writing from a woman's perspective, the impact of influences on his writing versus playing to your own strengths, the disappointment that accompanies being published, and the role of art in his life.  

I'm joined by Victoria Redel, an award-winning poet and fiction writer. Her most recent novel, Before Everything, was published by Viking Penguin in June 2017. Loverboy (2001, Graywolf /2002, Harcourt), was widely acclaimed and was adapted for a feature film starring Kyra Sedgewick and directed by Kevin Bacon. We talk about the challenges she faced as a female writer (and parent), what getting a movie deal was like for her, her literary influences and heroes, and why she read poetry on Facebook throughout much of the Covid-19 pandemic. And of course, what she would have wanted to be if writing hadn't been in the cards. 

Michael Gottlieb, author of more than 20 books, joins me to talk about the role of art in life, which he says is "to help us live our lives." He talks about New York, the hidden New York, how poets live their lives, what his vocation would have been if he weren't a writer, and whether or not he dog-ears his books. His most recent book, Selected Poems (CHAX, 2021) is coming out this Fall; you can pre-order Selected Poems here. You can learn more about Michael on his website.