Nerds At Church

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We mentioned last year’s Maundy Thursday episode diving into Passover with Rabbi Maurice Appelbaum and last year’s Good Shepherd Sunday episode diving into shepherding with Polly Festa.  For more on New Year’s traditions around the world, check out this Glamour article or check out this NaTakallam article.  Check out the lost sheep video Kay mentioned!  Kay also mentioned the Lord Peter Wimsey books.

***For those who want to go back to the beginning and also be ready for our new content, you can subscribe to the diakonia.faith YouTube channel, and specifically, check out our Nerds At Church Revisited Playlist, where we’ll be posting beginning next week for Advent 1!***

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We mentioned last year’s episode for the 21st Sunday after Pentecost diving deep into taxes, last week’s episode diving deep into lighting, this season’s 19th Sunday after Pentecost episode diving deep into vineyards, last season’s Maundy Thursday episode diving deep into Passover with Rabbi Maurice Appelbaum, and last year’s episode for the 15th Sunday after Pentecost diving deep into capitalism with Dr. Filipe Maia.  

For more on the history of money, check out this article from Science News.  John Oliver dug into Argentina’s presidential election and financial situation in Episode 15, which aired October 29, 2023 (we couldn’t find a full clip, though it’s available on many streaming services).  To compare your own money and inflation, check out this inflation calculator.  To compare costs from 1973, check out this WishbookWeb 1973 Catalog.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  For more on the Big Bang, check out our first season episode for the 2nd Sunday of Christmas with Dr. David Kordahl. We also mentioned this year’s Holy Trinity episode on prisms!  For more on weddings, check out this year’s episode for the 20th Sunday after Pentecost. Wikipedia has a great timeline of lighting technology and this site has a great article about the evolution of lighting!  Emily mentioned their article in Sojourners re-writing the Amos passage after the Uvalde shooting, EVN the bioethicist on tiktok, and diakonia.faith’s Pride Vigil (Suzannah’s part starts at 14:41).

CN: we briefly mention a school shooting in the first reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Mother Jo Kershaw (she) of The College of the Resurrection in Mirfield to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for the 23rd Sunday after Pentecost, also known as Lectionary 31 or Proper 26, which falls on the 5th of November this year, including our deep dive into Guy Fawkes Day! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  Go here to read the full Act of Parliament that we referenced.  We also talked about the trans poet Jay Hulme and Billy Porter’s amazing memoir Unprotected (best in audiobook format). Please take our listener survey!!

CN: we talk about torture, terrorism, and anti-Catholic discrimination when discussing the deep dive.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  For more on death, check out last year’s All Saints Day episode with Rev. Justin Thornburgh.  For more on cemeteries and graveyards, check out this year’s episode on the 5th Sunday in Lent.  For the real deep question of if Jesus was a zombie, check out our first season’s episode on the 3rd Sunday of Easter with Horror Nerds At Church.  Please take our listener survey!!

CN: we talk about christian supremacy and miscarriage in the deep dive and miscarriage also in the Gospel reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Brooke McLain (she) to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for Reformation Day, also known as Halloween or the last day in October, which falls on October 31st this and every year, though it may be commemorated the last Sunday in October, including our deep dive into coffee! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  To dive more into the Reformation, check out our first season’s episode with Luther Scholar, Pace Warfield, and last year’s episode on lesser-known impacts of the Reformation. Kay also shared this Coffee/Reformation Meme. Take our listener survey!!

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We highly recommend the Jewish Annotated New Testament.  We talked about John Oliver’s Last Week Tonight episode on health care for those who are incarcerated.  Kay mentioned this Captain America’s PR Manager fanfic.  Emily mentioned the HNAC episode on Interview with the Vampire.  Take our listener survey!!

CN: we talk about antisemitism when discussing the deep dive.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Rev. Sen. Sarah Trone Garriott (she) to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for the 21st Sunday after Pentecost, also known as Lectionary 29 or Proper 24, which falls on October 22nd this year, including our deep dive into civic engagement! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  Kay recommended A Practical Wedding for practical advice as well as tools and resources; Offbeat Wed for lots of ideas outside the normative wedding practices; Captain Awkward for all the awkward advice you need for weddings!

For more on the horror of the Twilight: Breaking Dawn, pt. 1 wedding scene, check out Horror Nerds At Church’s episode on the movie with friend of the podcast, Suzannah Porter.  For more on fire, check out this year’s Pentecost episode and for more on vineyards, check out last week’s episode.  Emily also mentioned HNAC’s first book miniseason episode on Star Wars: From a Certain Point of View. 

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We mentioned this summer’s parables episode with Dr. Amy-Jill Levine for the 9th Sunday after Pentecost. For more on vineyard management, check out this article from Michigan State University, this Practical Winery Library magazine, this study on vineyard management for grape production, or these pictures of what grapevines look like throughout the growing cycle.  Just for fun, check out the I Love Lucy scene of Lucy stomping grapes!

CN: we talk about diet culture when discussing the second reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Suzannah Porter (she) to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for the 18th Sunday after Pentecost, also known as Lectionary 26 or Proper 21, which falls on October 1st this year, including our deep dive into music in worship! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  Check out Suzannah’s musical gifts in QueeryingTheMusic (part of Emily’s QueeryingTheText blog, which is currently on hiatus, but has posts from the last time this year’s readings were up).  Suzannah mentioned her Sneaky B**** Playlist of Spirit-filled secular music.  We mentioned last week’s episode diving into Philippians.  Don’t forget to become a Patreon supporter to have access and download Suzannah’s comprehensive guide to citing music licenses for worship!

CN: we talk about abuse and family dysfunction when discussing the deep dive.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  To check out Emily’s first ever #RollForSermon on Philippians, you can find the tiktok here and you can find the full sermon here. For more on Paul, the author of Philippians, check out our deep dive for our episode on the 3rd Sunday of Easter last year.  For more on biblical cussing, check out the deep dive for our first season’s episode for the 15th Sunday after Pentecost.  For more about Jonah, check out the deep dive for our first season’s episode for the 3rd Sunday after Epiphany with River Cook Needham.  For more on vengeance, check out this season’s deep dive in our episode on the 14th Sunday after Pentecost.

CN: we mention Nazis when discussing the first reading and suicide in the second reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook, Twitter, & now Bluesky! at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg (she), the Scholar in Residence at the National Council of Jewish Women (NCJW), to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for the 16th Sunday after Pentecost, also known as Lectionary 24 or Proper 19, which falls on September 17th this year, including our deep dive into forgiveness! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  If you haven’t bought On Repentance and Repair yet, use this link for 10% off! We mentioned our Advent 3 episode on the Babylonian exile and last week’s episode on responding to abuse.  Rabbi Ruttenberg mentioned working with the organization Jewish Sacred Spaces.  She also mentioned Judge Joseph Flies-Away’s insights into community harm and accountability, and the book The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenthal. 

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  Check out church abuse prevention resources like this general one and this volunteer-focused one from Church Mutual.  Also, check out this Safe Church training from the Episcopal Church.  The CDC also has a resource (in English and Spanish) for preventing child abuse at program activities.  New York also came out with some best practices for an abuse-free environment.

If abuse does happen, this resource from the Southwest Minnesota Synod of the ELCA covers everything from preventing to reporting and responding.  This is a great resource to look at community-based intervention.  Abolitionist Tools has many great resources, including ones from Beyond Courts.  This resource specifically focuses on questions to consider when considering responding to harm without involving the criminal justice system.

We mentioned last week’s episode on vengeance, last year’s episode on criminal (in)justice with Dr. Sally Frank, our first season’s episode on prison abolition with Rev. Elle Dowd, this season’s episode on disarmament, and this season’s episode on the Office of the Keys with Bp. Brenda Bos.

CN: we talk about abuse during the deep dive.
To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  For more on law and legality, check out this recent Philosophy Tube episode.  Dive deeper into what Sodom and Gomorrah were really about with last year’s episode on the 7th Sunday after Pentecost.  Check out this Jewish Women’s Archive article for more about Dinah.  This is the Movie in 15 Minutes retelling of Troy that Kay mentioned.  For the best theological take on lynching, check out The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone.

CN: we talk about both systemic and interpersonal, including sexual, violence when discussing the deep dive. We mention abuse briefly in the Gospel reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Bp. Brenda Bos (she/her) to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for the 13th Sunday after Pentecost, also known as Lectionary 21 or Proper 16, which falls on August 27th this year, including our deep dive into the Office of the Keys! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We mentioned last week’s episode with the Canaanite woman in Matthew, last season’s Ash Wednesday episode with Aubrey Thonvold on reconciling communities, this season’s Easter Vigil episode with Rabbi Becky Silverstein on midrash, and this season’s 10th Sunday after Pentecost episode with Dr. Amy-Jill Levine on parables.  For more about sheep check out last year’s episode on Easter 4, or Good Shepherd Sunday, with Polly Festa; for more about shame check out our first season episode on the 2nd Sunday after Pentecost with Rev. Callie Swanlund; for more about alcoholism check out last season’s episode on the 2nd Sunday after Epiphany with Rev. Ingrid Brown.

CN: we talk about the holocaust and antisemitism as well as abuse, especially church abuse, when discussing the deep dive.

We talk about abuse in the Gospel conversation.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  Check out the recent Supreme Court decision about affirmative action here.  There’s a great recap of the Supreme Court decisions from this year in this article.  For more learning and growth, sign up for Anti-Racism Daily (or the weekly version) and participate in anti-racism training with an organization like Crossroads. We mentioned last season’s episode diving deep into labor justice with Ale Murguia-Ortiz, our first season’s Easter 5 episode diving deep into eunuchs and gender, and our first season's 15th Sunday after Pentecost episode diving deep into biblical cussing.  Kay mentioned this “instead of going to therapy” meme.

CN: we talk about racism mostly in the deep dive, but also throughout.

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We talked about our deep dive into fire from this year’s Pentecost episode and last year’s deep dive into capitalism with Dr. Felipe Maia.   Kay mentioned this NSFW meme of a tree being struck by lightning.

CN: we talk about fasting when discussing the deep dive.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  To explore what it means to keep kosher, check out this article with kosher basics.  For more about ancient diets, check out Not Bread Alone by Nathan MacDonald.  We also mentioned last year’s episode diving deep into Passover with Rabbi Maurice Appelbaum.

CN: we talk about food a lot throughout the episode and talk about supersessionism briefly in the second reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

Join Rev. Emily E. Ewing (they) and Rev. Kay Rohloff (she) and special guest Dr. Amy-Jill Levine (she) to explore new and nerdy connections to the scripture for the 9th Sunday after Pentecost, also known as Lectionary 17 or Proper 12, which falls on July 30th this year, including our deep dive into parables! 

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We talked about our first season’s Jesus Loafs You Series: A-Bun-Dance on mutual aid with Pete Myers of North Des Moines Mutual Aid; A Friend in Knead on sourdough with Rev. Micah Louwagie; Breadpocalypse on eating disorders with Caitlin Reilley Beck; “Eat me!”-Jesus on embodiment and chef-ing with Liz Williams of The Joyful Body Project and John Webb; and Rye/Wry and Shine on #GayBaking with Rev. Alex Raabe.  We also talked about this season’s episode for the 4th Sunday after Pentecost diving into Jeremiah. 

Dig deeper into Dr. Levine’s wisdom and work (for kids and adults)!  We especially recommend: Short Stories by Jesus: the Enigmatic Parables of a Controversial Rabbi and The Jewish Annotated New Testament (edited with Marc Zvi Brettler), both already out. Also, now is a great time to check out her upcoming works: The Gospel of Mark: a Beginner’s Guide to the Good News, geared towards congregational study; and Jesus for Everyone: Not Just Christians, due out next year and available for pre-order now.

CN: we talk about antisemitic interpretations when discussing the deep dive and biblical stories about rape during the first reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  For more on the history of agriculture as it connects to colonization, check out this article.  For more general information on agriculture in the United States, check out this article on crops and this article on soybeans.  Check out this tumblr thread Kay mentioned about Squish!  Learn more about the Department of Agriculture here and find out who gets how much in farm subsidies here.  Check out more about the risks of monoculture farming here.  

For more on the impact of family v. corporate farms, check out this article from 2019 or this fact checking article.  For more insights and perspectives on the right to repair lawsuit that farmers won, check out this BBC article and this NPR article.  For more on the Brazilian lawsuit against Monsanto, check out this article.  For more about Monsanto (to be read carefully, as the devil’s in the details), check out this company scorecard description.  Learn more about the harm that Dr. Sarah Taber, who Kay mentioned, did on twitter in this thread.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  For more on the heated tomatoes as fruit and/or vegetable debate, check out this episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class.  For more on dolphins, check out this episode of Ologies.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We talked about this article on nuclear missile near misses.  We talked about how the nuclear bomb developed and functions, particularly in the u.s. context. Wikipedia’s nuclear disarmament page is particularly insightful.  For more on challenges to disarmament, check out this article.  The Poor People’s Campaign has done a lot of work around the budget as a moral document.  For more on military spending in the context of the full u.s. budget, check out this article.

We mentioned this season’s episode on the 3rd Sunday after Epiphany, diving into the military and ministry with Rev. Adam Dowd, who is part of Veterans for Peace.  We also mentioned last season’s episode on the 2nd Sunday after Epiphany with Rev. Ingrid Brown, diving into alcoholism, addiction, and sobriety.  Kay mentioned this episode of Homebrewed Christianity.

CN: we talk about war in the deep dive and state violence in the first reading.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  For more on the binding of Isaac, check out this article by Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg, which is behind a paywall, but you can message to get free access if it’s not otherwise affordable.  We mentioned last week’s episode on Jeremiah, last year’s episode on Sodom and Gomorrah, and our first season’s episode on learning hard things.  For more on Eve, check out this podcast episode from Broadview with special guest and friend of our podcast, River Needham.  Check out this article on the 6 stages of moral development.  Check out the full story on Abraham Shakespeare’s lottery win.

CN: we talk about how obedience has been misused by the church when discussing the deep dive.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  We mentioned our Advent 3 episode this season on the Babylonian Exile and last season’s Easter 2 episode on the book of Revelation.  For a fairly comprehensive overview of the book of Jeremiah, check out Enter the Bible’s page about it.  We also used the article “Jeremiah: Structure, Themes, and Contested Issues” by Mark Leuchter, from The Oxford Handbook of the Prophets edited by Carolyn J. Sharp, though it is behind a paywall, which your local library may or may not help you get around.  Kay mentioned the song “Testify” as performed by Russell Crowe’s band and this biblically accurate angel meme.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible right now, please leave us a review instead — it helps sustain the show and spread the word!  Check us out on Facebook & Twitter at @NerdsAtChurch to connect!

The scripture we refer to for this episode can be found here.  Check out this Bible for Normal People episode to learn more about biblical literalism.  For more about resisting christian nationalism, check out Christians against Christian Nationalism.  Check out Horror Nerds at Church’s Jesus Camp episode for more about the documentary and what it portrays.  Find information about The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill here. 

CN: we talk about racism, christian nationalism, and sexual misconduct when discussing the deep dive.

To support Nerds At Church, you can become a Patreon Supporter at any tier for extra perks and bonus content including uncut guest episodes, Live Q&As, merch, and more.  If becoming a paying supporter isn't possible r