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Off Trail

Off Trail

By Ryan Bunting

On Trail, Off Trail, They are all one thing. We focus on the who and the how, not necessarily the what. To live a life on trail, you must first manage your life off trail. Whether that is backpacking, climbing, ultra-running, if you are a part of the outdoors community, you have to make your "off trail" time work, to be able to spend time "on trail." We take a look inside the lives of those that continue to pursue their dreams on trail by first taking the time to manage their "off-trail."

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Who is Tarptent?

Off TrailFeb 22, 2022

Who is Alpine Fit?

Who is Alpine Fit?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

Today we sit down with the one and only Jen, the owner of Alpine Fit.

We begin the show with a little backstory of how Jen found herself to be in Alaska, and how she came about to start a gear company. We chat loving time outdoors, self propelled travel, and priorities of family and business. We discuss the easy access of wilderness being right outside her doorstep and evolving to combine her passions.

We then go deep into the company itself and learn everything we can about Alpine Fit. We take a walk through Jen's experience in chemistry, textiles, and retail and her pursuit of bringing them all together underneath one proverbial umbrella. We chat merino wool and silver fiber technology. We then learn about their flagship product, their long sleeve shirt, that was built to be the one piece of versatile gear for most needs.

We discuss bushwhacking leggings, research and product development, and dive down the rabbit hole of body shapes and sizes. We learn Jen went deep into research even pulling old U.S. military data to find averages of body styles. Then she took all her combined data to offer two body styles for each product, instead of scaling sizes with the same proportions. A scientist and a gear creator combined!

We chat her chase of perfection in sizing, officially opening the store in 2019, and a planned trip to PCT Trail Days! We talk lightweight gear and then take a hard right turn into the philosophy behind marketing in the outdoors, and we love it! Jen starts the conversation with stating she does not like marketing and we begin unpacking a feeling that many gear creators struggle with in the outdoors, when you combine a passion with your work. We chat marketing being contrived and even sometimes dipping into the realm of dishonesty. There is no right or wrong, instead only feelings shared.

We fantasize about the creation of an Alaskan long trail and discuss its current conditions. We chat about Denali, coastal views, and get lost once more in the dense foliage of a bushwhack literally and figuratively. We then discuss how a legging can withstand the elements and Alpine Fit's creation of the perfect one.

We discuss being an entrepreneur and the list of tasks that only ever grows. We chat mental health, doing more, and spending time in the outdoors. Jen wakes up at a 6am on a Sunday with the idea for a new product and spends her morning designing. We then chat time management and the difficulties that arise when the to-do-list is never ending.

We chat setting alarms, looking at a clock and making yourself go to lunch, and finding balance before all our eyes become glazed over. We talk about finding balance, learning how to manage time over time, and health being a critical factor in being the best business owner you can be. We then drink some proverbial coffee, coin a term of working 25/7 somehow breaking the laws of physics and finding an extra hour each day, and the love of problem solving.

We discuss creating your own routes in Alaska, spoon feeding a bear peanut butter, and bears crossing the street. We wonder about moose and ask two parted questions that Jen absolutely "loves." We learn about the trail in her eyes being a starting place for adventure and setting an example as a company to live in a place that is desirable and give access to jobs that people are passionate about. We wrap the show with a simple but elegant answer that says it all...No

To learn more about Alpine Fit click below:


Social Media: @alpinefitco

To learn more about who we are:


May 23, 202301:08:00
Who is Chuckles?

Who is Chuckles?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

Today we sit down and chat, as well as chuckle, with the one and only Chuckles!

We begin the show by learning more about Chuckles evolution into the outdoors. Graduating college in 2016, hiking the Pacific Crest Trail in 2019, hiking the Continental Divide Trail in 2022, and we touch on the recurring name you will here the entire episode, the Appalachian Trail. A trail that was the inspiration of them all, and that has been a driving force for hiking, and will one day soon be the cumulation of years of adventure.

We chat living in Leadville, being a "ski-bum" in the winter time, and a background in the pharmaceutical industry. We dive deep into the feeling of being "suckered" back into normal life, and the feelings of wanting to hike, but not feeling ready to hike in the heart. We chat about the feeling many people who pursue hiking for long enough feel, of "having to do a hike" and Chuckles healthy outlook on realizing this and not doing a hike until she fully wants to, such as the Appalachian Trail.

We chat the 48/48 peaks of New Hampshire, the terrifying 25, and the Huntington Range. We chat the puzzle of math that most outdoor enthusiasts call life and Chuckles equation to find balance and happiness. We chat the hardest part of any hike, the portion after hiking. We chat about two desires being split and the two sides of seeking two vastly different things, a life in the outdoors, and a "regular" life. We dive deep into this topic and learn about the constant learning curve and listening to the heart as you always have to make the choice, and listen to the moment of what gives you the most joy.

We chat sitting at a computer and escapism. We discuss feeling content in regular life, having easier access to the mountains, and feeling at peace in the immediate. We learn about AT & T and Verizon map overlay systems on Gaia, and chat about Chuckles finding trails while she worked remotely "on call" to make sure she always had cell phone coverage.

We chat bridging two gaps of life, the weirdness in knowing there is a tangible end without it actually being "the end", and previously wanting time off trail to go faster and now wanting it to slow down. We all get thrown under a very large proverbial bus and brace for the bumpy ride as we discuss goal mentality.

We go into purism, connected footsteps, and chasing goals. We then take a step back from trail and talk relationships on the trail and off. We discuss the preconceived notion that relationships on trail are far harder than regular life, when in fact it is the complete opposite, for some. We chat shared goals, time apart, trail goals that divide, but pursuit of a shared life that brings togetherness.

We go into Chuckles origin story, and are very glad we did. It involves a trail angel's house, a privy, many bowls of beans, a masculine name, and a picture that still hangs on her wall to this day. One of the better origin stories we have heard in a long time!

We chat chuckling duals at dawn, the gift and privilege of getting to spend time outside, and wrap it all up with another shout out to the Appalachain Trail!

Thank you Chuckles, it was a joy to chat!

Learn more about Chuckles by clicking below:

Instagram: @adventuresofdotdot

To learn more about who we are click below:


May 16, 202301:15:47
Who is Zoner and What is the Hot Springs Trail?

Who is Zoner and What is the Hot Springs Trail?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast and welcome Zoner!

Today we sit down and chat with the one and only, Zoner and learn all things Hot Springs Trail. Shout out to Star-Lord for putting us together as it is a trail that has sparked our curiosity for awhile and now we have the privilege to learn all about it.

We begin the show with our broad question and Zoner goes quickly into depths that we try and follow. We learn about his pursuit of health and the measures he takes to fuel his body and mind, whether that is on trail or off trail. We go deep into the topic of health and learn that for Zoner it is more than just optimally performing physically but also the precursor to much more of life. We chat about his evolution of health personally and then look at it through a hiking lens.

We chat how to not just survive a journey but to thrive within it. We discuss hard times off trail that let the difficulties of a hike become the "good times." We dive into a knee injury that changed his perspective and a injury that has not held him back from over 30 Fastest Known Time completions. We then get an answer to a question that we have been pondering for a long time. Why do thru-hikers take pride in their junk food diets?

A answer that is a theory, but one that makes sense. It is less the "diet" and more so a reward system that triggers the brain to seek more. Sure, sugar can be addictive, but the reward to have a snack at the top of a mountain, at trail magic, at the end of a hard section is the true addiction. It is a new thought line for us and we explore it as much as we can. There is no "right" nor "wrong" only what works for the individual, but it is an interesting thought to dive deeper into.

We then talk all things Hot Springs Trail! A trail that Zoner has continued to advocate, build, and promote along its way to becoming a National Scenic Trail. We discuss the reason behind seeking the designation and the reason behind his passion for this trail. He sums it up eloquently with the simple statement of "The Hot Springs Trail for me is a therapeutic journey." Therapy of the body in the springs themselves, therapy of the mind in freedom, and therapy of the heart on an adventure. Take that quote however you may, but we have never heard a trail defined by such, and it contextualizes much about this trails creation.

We chat going between high points, encyclopedias of the word hot springs, and all methods of travel. We then chat the progression of the designation of a National Scenic Trail and here about the current progress. Zoner wants a community and not a empty piece of paper to define this trail and wants a heart in definition before a designation of bureaucracy. It is a very inspirational goal to seek, and one we hope to shed more light upon.

We chat roots and seeds, more accountability then Vitamin-I, and bias and opinion having no place in the creation of a trail. We are asked to name founders of National Scenic Trails and have a very difficult time in doing so. The trail is an unliving organism but the trail becomes alive when it becomes stories shared.

A truly wonderful chat with Zoner, thank you for sharing more about you and the trail with us!

To learn more about the Hot Springs Trail click below:


To learn more about us click below:


May 10, 202301:16:20
Who is Cal - What is the TransContinental Run?

Who is Cal - What is the TransContinental Run?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast, and welcome back Cal!

We spoke to Cal last as he was on the way to becoming the first Transgender person to finish the Calendar Year Triple Crown!

First things first, we begin the show with a congratulations, and then begin to learn what Cal has been up to since then. They have not been idle... to say the least. After accomplishing a goal few already achieve, they set their sights on something outside of our knowledge and depths, the sport of long distance running.

Not only are they doing a long distance run, but they are specifically created this route to go through the "battleground states" of the deep south where Transgender rights are the most at risk. Creating their own route from California to Florida, we catch up with them in the state of Texas and begin a deep dive into their journey.

We chat a dream that started in middle school, a homecoming of self while running through rural America, and the freedom of movement in body and mind. We talk about judgment and prejudice and the spreading of awareness. We go into the difference of movement in a high intensity sport of running compared to hiking, not physically, but mentally the journey it becomes.

We dive into one of our favorite words as Cal says it first, connection. Connection in solitude as they spent countless miles just themselves and a road, and through solitude in the physical sense, finding deeper connections within themselves, and directly correlated being able to find deeper connections in their friendships, relationships, and moments with others. We chat about the favorite way to spend time with the adult they are as well as their inner child.

We then unpack the route itself. Traveling through California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, and finally Florida. We touch on the filming of a feature length documentary showcasing the Trans-Joy they wish to spread. We dive deeper into the reality of the run, and the question Cal returns to when travelling through these states, "how can I be of service?"

We chat supporting the communities that Cal runs through, and listening to the needs shared. We chat multiple fundraisers and staying up to date with Cal's journey to be able to continue to support the causes they find. We chat running to make a better world.

We chat the choice behind creating this route, the message they are wishing to share, and getting to know people through love and respect. We discuss the "weight" of such a physical and mental goal, and learn that for Cal it is no weight at all, but their very fuel that keeps them going. We chat about privilege turning into responsibility, and how when a single group is challenged it challenges everyone's freedom. It is not singular but affects the rights of everyone.

We discuss the finish point in Tallahassee, Florida and the significance of this physical end point. We get lost in Cal's what they call "cool down lap" of just a "few" extra 700 miles at the end of this journey. We chat the simplicity of being a person, and that everyone no matter who you are, has individual wants and desires, that is what it means to be human.

We apologize here about the coffee noise in the background, which is now 2/2 when chatting with Cal. Hopefully if we have the opportunity a 3rd time to catch up with them, you can guarantee there will be some sort of coffee shop noise in the background.

Another great chat, always a privilege and joy to speak with Cal.

To learn more about Cal and the TransContinental Run click below:

Instagram: @cal_hikes *You should be able to access all the most up-to-date fundraisers and information through the above platform

Patreon: @CalDobbs

To learn more about who we are click below:


May 04, 202301:09:28
Who is Moondog?

Who is Moondog?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

Today we have the privilege to sit down and chat with the one and only, Moondog!

A conversation that enters into the depths of the complete unknown on our end, the world of "thru-skating." Having no idea where this chat will go, but fueled by curiosity and willingness to learn, we begin to find out all about this long distance sport.

First things first, we learn about Moondog and his journey towards thru-skating. We chat about being a hiker since he was a kid, taking up skateboarding to remain a part of his best friends life, and thru-hiking when a skateboard is on top of your pack.

We chat community around thru-skating, dozens compared to thousands, and if having the skills to hike and skate the magical combination of the two. We chat about learning balance, learning how to fall well, and the dynamics of becoming a thru-skater.

We talk whether thru-hiking or thru-skating has more of an importance to Moondog and dive deep into the best ice breaker ever. We chat about the abnormalcy of seeing a skateboard in the swamps of Florida and lost hikers in Colorado. We ask how he explains these situations to other hikers, and he says it is simple, a single question. "Where is the parking lot?"

We discuss what qualifies a thru-skate, naming a dog and a skateboard, and then dive deeper into his journey. We talk a route he and a friend created through New Mexico 480~ miles long. We talk about perception of locals and strangers when the method of travel is a skateboard and not hiking. We learn about the hidden gem of being mistaken for homeless and the true representation of kindness it unlocks in people. Pure kindness distilled when there is no context.

We chat fuel, physical and metaphorical. We learn about bad days on a skate and headwinds. We learn about the flexibility of a situation and sometimes to continue skating, one must pick up their board and walk for safety. Traffic, small road shoulders, and weather all impact this adventure just as it does a thru-hike.

We talk mileage, physical impact on the body, and tiredness compared with hiking. We learn how to pick a road, using satellite maps, and how to build a route. We chat the life giving force of water and the necessity it becomes in any long distance endeavor.

We then get a Off Trail exclusive, one time and one time only, we talk about gear. We rarely if never talk about gear on this show, because to recommend gear, is to not understand gear. The variety, personal preference, body shape, hiking style, is so different for everyone, that gear only works, if it works specifically for you. Anyway, we chat gear, out of curiosity, as we know nothing about thru-skating.

We chat wheels, bearings, boards, and not carrying spare parts. We go off on a tangent to learn about companies building specifically for this endeavor and while not directly marketing as "thru-skating" gear, that most of the boxes and needs are checked.

We talk about the wonderful absurdity of human powered extreme goals. We learn about skateboarding 300+ miles in 24 hours and are baffled but also impressed by the strength of someone who lives, breathes, and lives to skate. We then talk about cheeseburgers and want to eat a few.

We chat seeking different challenges and goals. Scaling human powered endurance to what fits your needs and wants. We discuss the idea that Moondog has been growing of skating from Mexico to Canada along his own route. We chat comfortability and growth of exploring freely. We then get lost down a deep tangent that could last for hours...

We chat red-line goals, personal, communal, and dangerously tread the water of an idea of a new show lost in our own personal flavor of lunacy.

A great chat with Moondog, thank you for sharing!

To learn more about Moondog:

Instagram: @rooptown

To learn more about who we are click below:


Apr 25, 202301:12:40
Who is Puddin?

Who is Puddin?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

Today we have the privilege of chatting with the one and only, Puddin.

Catching up with her fresh off her 4400 mile thru-hike of the Eastern Continental Trail, and her first thru-hike ever, we begin unpacking the introduction to long distance hiking and the change of life.

We begin the show with learning she is a hiker, a entrepreneur, and a mental health advocate. We chat about her journey through mental health and her growth in wanting to share it with others. We chat day hiking and moving to Virginia and first seeing thru-hikers. We discuss the difference between a section hike and a thru-hike, and the fact that defined by the singular activity of walking, how different they can be.

We chat the demands of life, work, an elderly dog, relationships, and the dominoes that led her to begin the Appalachian Trail. What began as one trail would extend to include many more, but first she would have to walk to find.

We discuss realities of fog and rain compared to perceptions of sunrises and rainbows. We chat the question of what did I sign up for, and the fuel that is found when starting something and the word quit never being in your vocabulary. We chat letting go of control and embracing the knowledge of everything will work out in its own time.

We chat about being halfway into the Appalachian Trail and plans for life changing. We chat not necessarily knowing what to do and the moment of a decision at the end coming extremely quickly. We dive into the feeling of finishing but almost feeling more lost than when beginning. We chat not looking for something specific but finding, connecting pieces falling into place, and the realization that the end on Mt. Katahdin was just another step.

We listen to the heart and intuition to guide, hiking to Canada, going to the Pinhoti, and saying no to hiking Florida. Then the trail and her journey finding Florida was another step.

We chat the bodies growth into such a large trail, not having the right shoes, and taking it slow to learn as one walks. We trust the body, take it in stages, and learning not to fixate on something not going your way. We discuss taking steps back to take steps forward, finding gratitude, and what happens if you foucs on the "suck" too much.

We then dive deep into the terminus feelings at the end of such a massive hike, specifically it being a first thru-hike. We discuss reflection before the actual end, mixed emotions, and finishing not fully sinking in. We chat indecisiveness, reentering society, and the world being to loud. We crack a window to let in some fresh air, and learn about finding a new identity.

We discuss the large amounts of change one goes through on a hike, and what happens when you come back home to much being the same. We get a recommendation on how to cope, with movement, routine, and journaling. We try to harness and hold the clarity and learn steps to keep it close by.

We then go into all things business and learn more about Puddin's work. Focusing on how to run ads on Instagram and promote yourself as well as your passion. We chat about building it on trail for off trail and vice versa. A business that focuses on mental health, passion, and living your best life.

We then learn that her off trail time is already limited, and she had planned a day before, another hike! Fully bitten by the bug, still less than a full month off 4400 miles, and she is ready to get walking once again. Sounds like we have a lifer on our hands. We discuss growth on the trail through challenges and continuing to seek becoming a stronger, healthier, and happier person.

As she puts it let intuition lead you, and let the trail create you.

To learn more about Puddin:

Instagram: @hikingwithpuddin

YouTube: @hikingwithpuddin

To learn more about who we are click below:


Apr 18, 202301:04:46
Who is Jenga?

Who is Jenga?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast.

Today we have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Jenga!

We begin the show through power of technology being connected through many times zones and across the world.

Jenga is currently in New Zealand and takes the time to sit down and chat about the hike he is currently on, The Te Araroa, and more generally his incredible view on hiking and life.

We dive into his somewhat ok-ish definition of thru-hiking and his sewing pursuits. Then quickly we dive deep and stay deep within the waters of what makes him, well him. We chat about the trail being a framework to live life outside of the binds of a classically defined society, we talk not being able to resist the call of side adventures, and we briefly touch on the wonderful animal called a sheep.

We then go into the word adventure itself. The very reason Jenga lives this life and the word that fuels him. We chat failure and success and compare and contrast the word adventure and thru-hike. We hear stories of the CDT and talk about scars upon the body that are fond memories.

We then learn about a disease that will one day without choice stop Jenga's hikes, it is called Charcot-Marie Tooth disease. (Please correct us if we are wrong Jenga, while listening to the word, tried to Google it and this is what came up) A disease that eventually eats away at the muscle connections and creates muscular dystrophy. We chat difficulty lifting toes, selfies of things that are tripped on, and being intentional about time. Another massive kudos to Jenga, for the healthy and happy mindset around something that could be very hard to mentally deal with.

We chat about looking for ways to extend time in the outdoors, a scary future but the realization all futures are unknown, and having as he puts it, "the good fortune to know when my car crash is." We talk about the healing powers of hiking for mind and body, and the price of owning muscles.

We chat artistry and take a virtual look through his lens of photography. A little voice that tells him "pretty" and a voice that puts him fully in the moment. We chat water miraculously not flowing downhill in New Zealand, capturing the essence of a thru-hike, and moments of beauty within simply, life. We discuss light, the expensive organs called eyes, and then we all get drenched by rain.

A deep look into the year of 2022/2023 on the Te Araroa Trail and the constant never ending rain. We talk flooding, demoralizing wetness, and mold and mildew. We chat the scariest river ford he has ever experienced, and the realities of the looney tunes world called New Zealand.

We chat breaking trekking poles, being inside of never ending clouds, and something called Lemonade Pass. Not a pass on the trail, but a anecdote on how he handles uncomfortable situations. He makes lemonade.

We chat breaking a pure goal mentality and letting the journey take you where it will. We chat a month of time off trail and what could break some hikers, was just part of the experience for him. We chat naked bike rides, being a snow positive person, and not doing a trail because they are easy.

We wrap up the show with a word that can be felt in this entire conversation and the meaning of trails and life for Jenga, freedom.

Thank you for joining us and sharing your story!

To learn more about Jenga:

Instagram: @jengadown

To learn more about who we are click below:


Apr 11, 202301:06:28
Who is Star Lord - Natchez Trace Trail Edition?

Who is Star Lord - Natchez Trace Trail Edition?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast and welcome back the man, myth and legend himself, Star Lord.

Star Lord returns to unpack all he has been up to since we last chatted. We catch up with him shortly after his completion of the Natchez Trace Trail and dive deep into his journey and the trail itself.

We through weirdness and story telling give an audio guide to the trail. We discuss all things camping related and the reality that almost every night not spent in a motel, will be spent stealth camping in the woods. We chat the Mississippi brown water and the never ending sweet embrace held within it. We chat water being and issue and carrying upwards of thirty miles between man made sources called water fountains. We chat roads, roads, and never ending roads.

We learn about the "no car, no stay" hotel rule that was completely made up on the spot. We learn about the loose grip on sanity found within those yellow lines and the benefit of hiking with a companion can keep you from insanity. We talk about the posts that define every mile and the break from the peaceful mind found in movement and the harsh reality of knowing every one of your time splits.

We chat the Star Lord's pursuit of the 11 National Scenic Trails and the goal found along the way. We chat being fueled by goals, and as he so eloquently states, to walk is better than not walking. We dive deeper into the pursuit mentality and unpack what it means for him.

We tell stories of the Natchez Trace Trail, define its reality, and get lost within its lunacy. We unpack the definition of National Scenic Trails themselves, and theorize on to what it actually means. We ramble, we get lost, and we virtually walk along a road.

Another great chat with Star Lord, thank you for another weird one!

To learn more about Star Lord:

Instagram: @chandlerstrailstories

To learn more about who we are click below:


Apr 04, 202301:02:50
Who is Coyote?

Who is Coyote?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

Today we sit down to chat with the one and only, Coyote.

We begin the show by learning about labels and the growth of breaking free of defining oneself in the singular. We learn about Coyote bein a chef, a thru-hiker, a artist and a musician. Then almost instantly we dive deep into the growth through hiking and just as importantly the growth found and taken off trail from hiking.

We talk hard labor jobs, percentages of life off trail being too high within the grind mindset, and the more Coyote hiked the more he craved more life not only on trail but off. We chat Coyote seeking more multi-dimensional life within his pursuit of thru-hiking and more generally a life will lived. We chat weighted returns on time, plateaus of growth, and unlocking new levels of fitness.

We chat the importance of becoming obsessed with thru-hiking but finding balance within the obsession. We chat the importance of realizing there is a life off trail, and it doesn't have to be singular, it can be a full life. We quickly touch on the Grand Enchantment Trail, the Pacific Northwest Trail, and the Northern New Mexico Loop with a quick shout out to the legend himself, Brett Tucker.

We chat the questions that arise when the trail ahead becomes undefined, we chat the similarities and differences of the words adventure and thru-hike, and we dive into the very definition of what the term "thru-hike" can mean. We break the chains of a classical definition and theorize the change that is almost never chosen but always found. We discuss singular goal mindsets and the vast varieties within, we dip our toes into the word "purism" and unpack all the baggage associated inside it. We debate the undefined line in the sand that defines a purist and where it begins and where it ends. No answer found, only theories provided.

We chat the Idaho Centennial Trail. We chat skipping a section and the choice that was never a choice. We chat early season Sawtooth Mountains and swelled creeks. We dive into quitting the ICT 4 times and coming back over and over again. We go further into the feelings and perceived need to return to a trail. We unpack shame and embarrassment in choosing the not only right choice but only safe choice and the danger that can arise from being consumed in the accomplishment mindset. We talk no matter the hiker, that if you hike long enough and far enough the inevitable decision that all will be faced with.

We chat respect for hikers that chose to not continue, and when going home becomes the right choice. We discuss the filter of social media and the dangers that lie within. We chat the Mogollon Rim Trail and the growth in a discomfort chosen. On the flip side we chat the growth found in comfort chosen. The comfortable choice sometimes becomes the most uncomfortable and the most difficult.

We chat becoming a cat in the rain, making plans A and B, and learning to read topo lines. I incorrectly define what dead-reckoning is and we talk the healthy vs the unhealthy. We compare the bodies reaction to health in and health out, and the weird pride that hikers find in eating unhealthy diets. We chat becoming an athlete, no higher responsibility than life itself, and the truest heroes of them all, the people living regular lives.

It gets weird and it gets deep, an absolutely wonderful episode. Thank you so much Coyote for sharing with all of us.

Favorite Quotes:

"The trail to me means knowledge of life and knowledge of myself."

"If I am off trail, I still need to have some sort of trail."

Follow Coyote at the links below:

Instagram: @hikingcoyote

YouTube: @hikingcoyote8169

To learn more about us click below:


Mar 28, 202301:17:31
What is the Te Araroa Trail - South Island?

What is the Te Araroa Trail - South Island?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

We are bringing in Season 3 with a (2) part series as our co-hosts, Constantine and Magpie, break down all things The Te Araroa Trail.

The Te Araroa Trail is a 1880~ (official) mile hike in New Zealand. With the alternates and connecting footsteps of this hike, in total 1909.4 miles were hiked and 108.6 canoed, totaling 2016.2 miles of human powered movement. As of 2022/2023 season, if you hike it in the "purist" form this will be the mileage that you find is actually on the ground. It connects the top of the North Island at Cape Reinga to the bottom of the South Island at Bluff traversing the entire length of the country.

In this second part of our 2 part series we focus on the South Island. Don't be fooled, even though they are all one country, these two islands are drastically different for the thru-hiker. 

We begin the show with a long rant on energy drinks as you demand. Magpie breaks the time wall, we chat good ol' boys of New Zealand, and we discuss how cookies are a part of our figure. We have an exclusive as we try not one, but two, energy drinks! First, we begin with the classic "V" drink that is available in every corner store in NZ. Then we focus on the one and the only "Mother Energy" which fully captured our heart with its marketing copy. 

"Live life your way." "Mother is calling, pursue your dreams." "Rip into some Mother." All very strange and alarming quotes from their poem... well, nothing to do but drink their off brand Red Bull.

Okay, enough enery drink talk, lets talk the South Island of NZ. We begin by realizing that rocks can't tell Magpie what to do and then focus on the Queen Charlotte Track. A wonderful piece of trail that begins every Southbounders adventures on the South Island. Excellent grading, epic views, and great camping. Don't get used to the graded track though, soon it will change!

We then discuss the Richmond Ranges... oh the Richmond Ranges. We chat sending food to the SI, confusion on the Bealey Hotel, and the ranges being the most technically challenging part of the TA.  We chat predicting pace and the lack thereof, 2mph becoming a blistering speed, and orange posts. We chat flooding, being stuck at a hut, and wether or not mountains are ladies.

We chat Nelson Lakes one of the most gorgeous places along the TA, hiking hut to hut, and the varities of huts. We chat the freedom of wild camping again and the joy in walking until tired, backcountry hut passes, and the DOC putting so much time, work, and energy into creating huts. We chat routes, paths, and tracks and briefly touch on their designations.

We chat "Middle South Island Stuff" and the change of flavor the trail becomes as it transitions into river beds, passes, mixed track, and the ability to average and estimate out one's pace for the day. We chat expansive views, reminders of the Great Divide Trail, and three giant water hazard zones known as the Raikia, Rangitata, and Queenstown. The first almost always unfordable with a 30+ mile alternate, the second fordable (use own judgment!), and the third many options around. 

We chat Lake Tekapo being another "changing point", waypoints called Tussocks, concious cruelty, and of course some looney tunes living! 

We chat wind, sand flies vs. mosquitoes, and lotions and potions. We give massive shout outs to people who do this as their first hike and think going forward they will have many skills for any trail. We chat Longwood Forest, Linton Mt, and life being a circle.

We end with a Ramen Rating Review of both islands, and well we were quite surprised with Magpie's results!

To learn more about us click below:


Mar 14, 202301:18:12
What is the Te Araroa Trail - North Island?

What is the Te Araroa Trail - North Island?

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

We are bringing in Season 3 with a (2) part series as our co-hosts, Constantine and Magpie, break down all things The Te Araroa Trail.

The Te Araroa Trail is a 1880~ (official) mile hike in New Zealand. With the alternates and connecting footsteps of this hike, in total 1909.4 miles were hiked and 108.6 canoed, totaling 2016.2 miles of human powered movement. As of 2022/2023 season, if you hike it in the "purist" form this will be the mileage that you find is actually on the ground. It connects the top of the North Island at Cape Reinga to the bottom of the South Island at Bluff traversing the entire length of the country.

In this first part of our 2 part series we focus on the North Island. We begin the show by trying to paint a broad picture of the Te Araroa Trail and how we experienced it. First we tackle the assumption and perception of this hike vs. the reality. If you are coming from the US/Canada and expect this trail to be the same as what you have experienced elsewhere... well get ready... the only thing that is the same is you are using walking as your method of travel. Everything else? Well, everything else is New Zealand tramping!

We chat our own beliefs in the creation of the Te Araroa and from what we experienced and saw the thought that the TA was desingned to experience New Zealand. Yes, you hike. Yes, you climb and descend. Yes, you resupply. Yet, the route of the trail we saw was used by many as more of a "guidepost" to explore New Zealand and less of a "classically defined" thru-hike. No right, no wrong, only our observations.

With that being said, we discuss the culture shock of the "New Zealand hiking culture." The culture of New Zealand was familiar while being different, but what we focus on is the culture of the TA and hikers themselves. We chat the differences in hiking culture vs US & Canada hiking and how it lead to an initial confusion on trail.

We chat mileage and campsites being defined for you on the North Island, we chat connected steps and the struggle of being outside the norm, and we chat Holiday Parks. If there is one phrase that could be used to describe the hike on the North Island it would be Holiday Parks. Wonderful hybrids of campsites/motels that are extremely pleasant and mostly front country for a hiker. 

We chat the Auckland Sprawl, percentages of the North Island that is road (due to forest closures), and pace being defined for you. We discuss hikers sorting by pace and how this becomes almost impossible when legally camping on the TA. We chat hitching culture, camping etiquette, and lack of trail family. We give shout outs and theorize what we would do differently if we knew what we knew now.

We chat mud, mud and more mud. We chat "mystery miles" and the hardest part of the hike is the flat topo lines. We chat lack of pace estimation, 90 mile beach only being 60~ miles, and the Taruaras. We then diverge and try to break apart this hike section by section, and well it becomes chaotic. Strap in.

We dicsuss flat miles, campsites per person charges, and throwing a fish from the ocean to a shop. We broad stroke the North Island and chat ferries, tides, roads, and logisitical daily routines. We chat rain, alternates, floods, river paddles, and people all over the place.

Finally we wrap with the discussion of Wellington. Constantine unpacks more without getting too deep the turbulent emotions that led to what Magpie defined as his grumpiest mood in years. Possible mid-life crisis? 

We end the show with a shout out to what gave us fuel, the most important part of any hike, CHONKY DOGGOS!

To learn more about us click below:


Mar 07, 202301:16:24
What is a Pilgrimage?

What is a Pilgrimage?

“Maybe they just come for the fountain of wine…”

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast and another wonderful informational episode with Christine Thuermer.

Today we chat all things Pilgrimage Trails.

We start off the show with finally pronouncing our guests name correctly and then diving into the intricacies of why all Americans hike the Camino De Santiago.

We begin by going back in history as Christine walks us all through the start of pilgrimage trails. We begin in the medieval times and learn about Catholicism, veneration of saints, collecting relics and being cleansed of all your sins.

We discuss how going on a pilgrimage used to be a punishment and the term “indulgence” in reference to a pilgrimage.

We chat less time burning in purgatory, holy years, scenery not being a concern, and how the word hike and pilgrimage are not the same.

We chat multiple “caminos” and the broad scope of these trails, we chat spiritual vs religious quests, and we chat convenience and big business.

We chat the new age lifestyle on a pilgrimage trail. We chat hostels, friends, wine, crowds, and easy walking. We chat about connection to “God”, wild camping, legal drinking ages, and pilgrimage passports.

We chat the history in each step, the spiritual significance and the special atmosphere on a pilgrimage trail.

We discuss the popularity of creating new pilgrimage trails and how it has become a “blanket” term for many hikes in Europe. We chat the infrastructure, accessibility, and the reasons behind the creation and the user perspective.

Christine then turns the tables on us and asks us a question we still have yet to answer: “Why are there no pilgrimage trails in the United States?”

Disclaimer: We use our own opinion and reasoning to try and chew through this question, answering the why that we think, not necessarily the “actual why.”

A great question to wrap up the show that leaves us wondering…

To sum it up, if you want to go on a “thru-hike” a pilgrimage trail may not be for you. Sure the baseline activity of “hiking” is the same, but almost everything else is different.

Thank you Christine for another wonderful and informational episode!
To learn more about Christine go to: Instagram @Christine_Thuermer
To learn more about who we are click below:
Jan 24, 202301:13:35
Who is Masochist?

Who is Masochist?

“When on a long trail there is no finishing, I am just existing.”

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast!

Today we sit down with Masochist, also known as Matthew, to learn more about his deep dive into this life of adventure.

We begin with a little backstory learning of his career in IT which began only 2 weeks out of high school. Flash forward to his 39th year around the sun and he was ready for a change.

We chat the impetus for the change, a mixture of loved ones passing away, the support of a wonderful partner, and the appreciation for learning you just never know how much time you have.

We chat the difficulties of balance when consumed with passion, a very irregular existence in general, and having more plans than available time.

We chat travel fatigue, cravings of stability, and the treat of “nothingness.” We chat becoming antsy, campground conundrums, and volunteering with the Sierra Club.

We discuss shorter distance trails losing some of their shine, surviving without zero days, and the feeling of just existing. It’s less about mileage he says and more about just the time on a trail.

We then jump into the Condor Trail. We learn of the bushwhacks, the lack of consideration for resupplies, and preparing oneself for the indignities of “actual trail.”

We chat the why. We chat goal oriented mentality and going from point A to B. We then take a look into the PCT in 2020 and the flavor of the first long trail in the year that shall not be spoken.

We chat normalcy in the abnormal, a “private tour” of the PCT, and exposure in town being minimal. We chat planning a long hike while actively finishing a long hike, aiming higher, and learning of the ECT’s existence.

We then chat all things Eastern Continental Trail. We chat homeless encampments, being told by a person it was “my bush,” and $300 for one of the worst hotel stays ever. We chat magic, consistency, and the meat grinder that is called pavement. We chat mentality around 5,000 miles, the Florida Keys, and how to avoid the scariest wildlife of all; aggressive dogs.

We chat moose hunting, caribou mating, pit bulls, something called Meat Cove, a untouchable lighthouse, and a “snarl torpedo.”

We then get into the heavy segment of emotions. We chat Matt’s choice that was not a choice to get of his CDT hike earlier this year. We chat altitude cough turned into a serious case of COVID. We chat being bedridden, feverish, and physically depleted. We chat being used to being in pain but the threshold that exists between “push mentality” and when it becomes unsafe.

We chat bargaining, acceptance, and planning for the future. We chat deeper questions of existence and doing everything one can to continue.

Truly a wonderful chat with Matthew, thank you for sharing with us all your journey!


“[Thru-hiking] gives you appreciation for how hard it is just to exist when you don’t have a place to go home to.”

“Long trails tend to be addicting to some of us…”

“Even bedridden I was already making plans.”

“I can push through anything, I can keep going.”

To learn more about Masochist go to:

YouTube: @FirstChurchofTheMasochistHikes

Instagram: @mattonamtn

To learn more about who we are click below:
Jan 17, 202301:14:52
What is Butterflies?

What is Butterflies?

“If you add deli mustard and yellow mustard you get a bomb sandwich… If you subtract deli mustard from a yellow mustard you get a weird hot dog.”

Welcome back to Off Trail Podcast!

This week we sit down with co-hosts Constantine and Magpie to chat all things “butterflies.”

How do butterflies apply to anything hiking related? Well, just like a caterpillar that goes into its cocoon to blossom a colorful and wonderful butterfly, we to as hikers go through a transformational stage. Huh… we actually meant the above as a joke, but re-reading our edit, it weirdly makes sense?

Anyway, welcome to the show! We begin the show with what you all demand, an energy drink review. This week we taste test “Guru” and well let us tell you just like hiking it transports you to a wonderful mountain top of flavor. Take in that deep breath and find your inner wise old sage, take a sip of Guru and who knows you may just become one…

We then chat about worlds of pain and goblets of grief, about belly pillows and the mysterious “upper bellular region.” We chat about shoving and burying emotions, streams of consciousness, and Constantine’s inner “basic white gurl.”

We chat coping mechanisms, Magpie makes a cringy math joke, and we compare the pre-trail jitters or “butterflies” to the first day of a new school. We chat pumpkin spice lattes, the emotional state inside of perpetual motion, and reflect on “wasted time.”

We chat mustard equations, goals narrowed and the relief it can bring, and the power in the palm of your hand. We chat getting out of trail shape, excruciating knee pain, and the “David Goggins mentality.”

We chat neck pillows, first step peace of mind, and passports being flagged. We chat about excitement vs. all consuming emotion. We chat what happens if you lose the pre trail jitters and if it means you no longer care. We chat edges and the bluntness. We chat ratios and express feelings (that we should have clutched and buried).

We chat when hiking becomes life, when looking at a dream glossing over the realities inside of it, and criticizing someone for owning both an umbrella and a shower. It’s not the being wet, it’s the choice.

We chat active choice of white picket fences, we chat treading proverbial water, and we chat how comfort can be a weakness but also a strength.

We try our very best to tangent and joke away our feelings, yet it seems that some do come through. The butterflies experienced here allow us to understand what hiking is and has become to us.

Lastly we chat rationalizing choices and what happens when you consume a tube of cookie dough per day. After all it is less calories than baking said cookie, alright time to eat a:

“A regular cookie, cookie dough, cookie.”

To learn more about who we are click below:
Jan 10, 202301:05:03
What is European Hiking?

What is European Hiking?

European Vs. US Thru Hiking, what’s the same, what’s different?

“They are actually paid in cheese.”

Welcome back to the Off Trail Podcast! Don’t let the first line fool you, we talk much more in depth about the intricacies of hiking in Europe and the US… but of course we do spend the obligatory time touching on cheese.

Welcome back Christine Thuermer! After our first chat with her, she had a wonderful idea as she has hiked so many miles both overseas and in the US, that it could be a wonderful informational source to unpack the concept of hiking.

We begin by setting a baseline of the difference between US and European hiking. It comes down to “wilderness vs culture.” Of course while in the US you can experience many cultures while hiking, but the vast majority of your day is spent in the wild, hiking. In Europe the conduit of course is still hiking but the experience becomes drastically different. You walk through history, walk through towns, walk through almost daily food, lodging, and “front country” exposure.

We chat the E1-E11 trail systems of Europe, we chat the Camino, we chat standards of US hiking such as the AT or PCT and how there is no “standard” of European hiking.

We then dive into logistics. Crossing borders, language barriers, and the amazing power of Google translate. We discuss SIM cards, governmental management, politeness, and avoiding stepping on “cultural toes.”

We then compare and contrast resupply strategies. How to carry food, when to carry food, and most importantly why you should not carry *alot* of food in Europe. We discuss cemeteries, water sources, and churches. Of course we ask about ramen, and get a wonderful answer.

Next up, camping. We discuss the concept of most “free camping” in Europe being forbidden, but how this is more of a general guideline then iron rule. We chat hunters, dog walkers, and forestry personal. We chat easements, public roads, and trails.

We chat asking for help, knocking on doors, and no trail angels. We chat budget, $1 wine bottles, sugar taxes, and the vast difference from country to country. We chat how there is a place and trail for every budget it is just about picking it. We chat 1 brewery for every 5,000 people, self service wine coolers, and food, food, and more food.

We chat a wealth of information for European hikers and what OSM maps or Open Street Maps are utilized for. We chat the concept of “hiking” is part of day to day life vs an exclusive trip. We chat credit card hiking (hint: not what you think it means) and how running out a trail in Europe is possible… but not the point.

Experience the culture, experience the food, experience a trail and a hike European style!

Thank you Christine for sharing the information with us!

Favorite Quotes:

“If caught more likely to be invited for breakfast than chased away.”

“Don’t think a lot of what goes into the ground water in cemeteries.”

“The louder we speak the more Google will understand it.”

“What makes it so special is the culture, take time to immerse yourself in that.”
To learn about Christine go to: Instagram: @Christine_Thuermer
To learn more about who we are click below:
Jan 03, 202301:08:47
What is the North Country Trail?

What is the North Country Trail?

Some people call it a rental kitchen, some people call it a professional studio”

Today we sit back down with co-hosts Constantine and Magpie to talk all things North Country Trail.

We began the show with what you all demand, an energy drink review! We chat airing it like a fine wine, spaghetti growing on trees, and baby birding previously chewed Hi-Chew candy.

After a quick gross out portion, we dive deep into the North Country Trail. We find out that only NCT anniversaries count, that with a distance of 4833~ miles and growing you could walk across the country and half way back in the same length, and all friendly things about the state of Ohio.

We break down the NCT by each state, starting with Vermont. Quickly jumping into New York, and then rolling into Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the beauty of North Dakota.

We chat Ohio dogs and pepper spray, loving enough to avoid pain, and tracking miles. We chat fluctuation of miles, growing trail, and trail chapters. We chat sticking to the official route for the FKT and how exponentially hard it made this hike.

We chat Finger Lakes, fighting winter, and long food carries. We chat weird days, anything and any animal chunky bringing unbridled joy, and horror film hotel lobby’s in Michigan.

We chat the Manistee Forest and the sigh of relief to free camp again. We shout out Munch and SOS and cutting the NCT in half. We chat Mackinaw Bridge logistics, hey dare ho dare doughnuts, and doldrums.

We dive deep into what we called the “Duluth Doldrums” and unpack a story never told before. The feelings behind facing a growing trail already 3,400~ miles in and facing an “impossible” time frame to finish. We chat breaking points mentally and physically and finding energy when there wasn’t any left to give. We chat being at the lowest we have ever been before on any hike.

We chat the Superior Hiking Trail, Boundary Waters, and the Chippewa National Forest freezing rain rollercoaster. We chat all things beautiful in North Dakota, sheriff puppies, meteor showers, and licking a roast beef sandwich.

We chat feelings, emotions, and giving oneself time to think and process what an amazing journey of mental and physical tests that is the North Country Trail.

Favorite Quotes:

“I purchased it with my own money… so yea… I’m sponsored… I just sponsored the company.”

“Ask me what I had for breakfast nothing. Ask me to repaint a Chunky Pug… Picasso!”

“What if and how”

To learn more about who we are click below:
Dec 13, 202201:14:22
Who is Renee and Tim (ThruHikers)?

Who is Renee and Tim (ThruHikers)?

“We get along a lot better in the canoe if I’m not carrying a fishing pole.”

Welcome Renee and Tim!

Today we sit down to chat with Renee and Tim, also known as ThruHikers…well you guessed it, all things thru-hiking!

We begin the show by taking a proverbial dip into the backstory of being from the Midwest and growing up seeking adventure. We wish it could be a “literal dip” into the Midwest waters, because it seems the more and more folks we talk to, the more and more we hear of athletes, explorers, record setters, intense steppers coming from the Midwest! Has to be something in the water.

We chat their first thru hike on the Pacific Crest Trail in 2018, and then the travel to Germany for work, and the exploration of trails in their new home.

We chat their growth of a hiking app as a hobby to gather better maps and information and the trajectory it currently is on.

We chat their 2021 CDT thru hike and stumbling upon a new outlet on trail, social media. We chat follower count, monetizing, and the constant equation of addition vs subtraction of social media while hiking. We chat the thought that goes into each post, nightly chores, and falling asleep writing blog posts. We chat fuel from toxicity, overall joy, and social media as a connection to community on lesser known trails. We have nothing but kudos to say as Renee and Tim seem to have an incredibly healthy mindset.

We then dive deep into their completion of the Pacific Northwest Circuit. A route they created starting at the terminus of the PNT, walking into the GDT, connector route, and then paddling the Columbia River to the ocean. We chat map saying 2700 miles and ground truthed 2850~ miles all in.

We chat hiking the wrong direction, clinging to a tree, snow being the greatest humble check, and even knowing it’s the right decision and the safe decision the feelings that ensue.

We chat connected steps, border conundrums, harder trails, and time stressors. We chat somebody drawing a line on a map and that line not existing. We chat transitioning to a canoe, miles per day by water, and different habits canoeing vs hiking.

We chat physicality and mentality differences, flowing water, and new levels of proximity in a canoe. We chat snacks, time vs distance, and chores. We chat daylight, resupplies, and enjoying one’s life.

Truly a wonderful chat with Renee and Tim, thank you for sharing some of your story with us!

Favorite Quotes:

“You have to do something with your life, why not do something you are enjoying.”

“What is a fun way to share it?”

“That line sure looked like a trail…”

Follow them:

Instagram, TikTok, YouTube: @thruhikers

To learn more about who we are click below:
Dec 05, 202201:06:34
What is the Vancouver Island Trail?

What is the Vancouver Island Trail?

Today we sit down and chat with Constantine and Magpie all things Vancouver Island Trail!

We begin the show by discussing how to deal with travel stress and pre trail jitters and how to properly displace all those feelings into anxiously fretting over travel pillow purchases.

Then we get to the part of the show you all demand, the energy drink review! We begin the show by revealing the true talent that is the ad agency behind Full Throttle Energy! The poem on the can we could never do justice to, and never could hope to read with enough enthusiasm, passion, and love that shows the emotions that surge through with every sip. What we can say though is strap in for a rollercoaster of feelings!

We then chat the taste, comparing it to a vat of acid that the Joker jumped into, and how chemically cleansing the organs is what true health is.

Finally we get into the show, what is the Vancouver Island Trail? We chat, well we mostly chat stories. This trail is still so much in its “infancy” and growth stage, that any information we can impart is probably outdated by now, so instead we tell jokes, stories, and anecdotes of what went wrong. You know how the saying goes… you win some, you lose more.

We chat what “70% completion” means, and tackle the trail by segments. We chat logging industries and land usage. We chat the definition of spine and how it leads to a grumpy Magpie. We chat bushwhacking, climbing waterfalls without ropes, and impassible cliffs.

We chat map mileage vs actual mileage. We chat running out of food and GPX tracks.

DISCLAIMER: You finally get the answer to where the GPX tracks are!

We chat how having too much information can sometimes become a problem. We chat time warps, story times, and not following logic. We chat the types of rain, going through the ocean, and walls of water.

We reference John Mulaney… badly. We chat concentration of bears and cougars. We chat short shorts and the pain of being unbuttoned to the world. We chat trail angels and the love shown for this trail, and wrap up our thoughts with one word for this trail… potential!

Thank you Vancouver Island Trail Association for a wonderful adventure!

Favorite Quotes:

“Best part of the show is its un-listenability”

“Just accepted we were always wrong”

“More a controlled fall than a hike”


To learn more about who we are click below:
Nov 29, 202201:07:42
Who is Christine Thuermer?

Who is Christine Thuermer?

Today we sit down with the one and only Christine Thuermer! Buckle your proverbial seat belts because this one is a wild ride. Christine is the “most hiked woman in the world” having completed 60,000KM of hiking, 40,000KM of hiking, and 8,000KM of paddling. The question no longer becomes what next, but instead is there anything left you haven’t done?! She answer our unspoken question quite simply when she states “It is not important to end the trail because it’s just all a part of a long journey.” We begin the show by realizing, when she points it out, she is the first foreigner (excluding Canada) to be on the show! We then begin to unpack a little of her backstory as she shares being a business woman and how the lessons she learned in the career world have transferred over to how she handles adventures. She takes the business oriented mind, but then opens it to freedom and curiosity, and as you will hear when combined how the end result is something truly special. We dive deep into her “impetus” into thru hiking beginning with a simple conversation with some PCT thru hikers she met while on vacation. We chat the turning point for her to realize time is irreplaceable and how she wanted to live her best life, now. We go deeper into the first chat that opened up this new world for her, and what was so capturing, inspirational, and life changing in a single conversation that could change an entire life. We begin with her first thru-hike in 2004 on the PCT, her becoming about the 100th person to Triple Crown, and her burning curiosity to continue exploring. We chat chasing the “strong Euro” and how her hikes were practical from her business background to use her currency where it was the strongest but also to see and be free to explore new things. We chat looking for a challenge. When someone has accomplished so much, what is the continuing source of fuel to living this life? We chat new ways to intellectually challenge oneself, first her becoming a multi-book best selling author in Germany, to doing full presentations, to continuing to look for new ways to challenge her intellectual capacity anyway she sees fit. We chat thresholds of happiness, tiny apartments in ex-communist buildings, and the most important resource in life. We chat The Greater Patagonia Trail, hiking both East to West and North to South across Europe, and adventuring for a year and a half straight. We chat being “un-athletic”, finding “The Flow”, and paper maps vs reality. We chat Schnapps, snickers bars worth their weight in gold, and more Schnapps. We chat refusing sponsorships and the reason behind refusing what so many people actively seek. We chat how a terminus just becomes another part of the overall journey. We chat the writing process over the years and becoming people’s “daily Netflix.” We chat and Germany having the same miles as the entire US of walkable tracks. We chat Eastern Europe and the beauty of new areas, the “might as well mentality” and we chat thru-hiking being the first love. So much to touch on, not nearly enough time, thank you so much Christine for joining us, it was an absolute joy, we only scratched but a fraction of a percent of the stories/life, but hope to have you on again! Favorite Quotes: “There is always chances along the trail of my life.” “I am the most un-athletic person I can think of.” “Most important resource in my life is time.” “1 Dinner, 1 Breakfast, 27 M&M’s.” To learn more about Christine Thuermer check the links below: Instagram & Facebook: Christine_Thuermer Website: Blog: To learn more about who we are click below: Website:
Nov 22, 202201:07:32
Who is Trashalope?

Who is Trashalope?

Today we sit down with the one and only Trashalope! We catch up as he most recently finished the Continental Divide Trail 10 days prior to this recording, thus completing his Triple Crown. We begin the show be discussing the concept of trail names, and as growth from hiking as a hobby to hiking as a lifestyle changes the way one feels about trail names. We spend the obligatory time talking all things McDonalds, per our sponsorship contract, a minimum of 10 minutes must be discussed per episode. (Joke, not sponsored.) We do however talk McDoubles, the McDonalds Challenge, marinating in MSG, and preserving the body through preservatives. We dive deeper into Trashalope’s background into hiking beginning with half of the AT in 2018 where a fractured tibia would stop his hike for a few months. We then talk his trajectory into being consumed by thru-hiking as a lifestyle, coming back to the AT a few months later, doing the PCT, CT, BMT, FT, and CDT. We discuss the feelings of hiking and the growth of the feelings through the years of what keeps him coming back and keeps him fueled to pursue these trails. We touch on his background in cross country, digging to the bottom of his physical/mental well of strength, and the “simplicity” inside of a thru-hike. We then get into the meat of the show and talk all things “Burn Out.” A question that we spend more than 30 minutes trying to unpack, answer, and feel our way through together. Starting with the question of “Why” and how the longer one hikes, the more this one question begins to be asked more and more. For Trashalope he traces this back to his completion of the AT in 2021 and the Florida Trail in 2022, when he began wondering his deeper reasoning for why. As he puts it, it took him 9,000 miles of hiking to get to the core of the question. We follow our collective stream of thoughts down the line, and try to figure out what this feeling actually means. Finding an answer along the way, or possibly just digging the hole deeper for this circular thought we continue to unpack what burn out means. We discuss how a thru-hike can be all about exploration but how at a certain point it can also limit exploration. We chat about seeking new challenges and the desire to learn something new once again. We chat levels of competency and while a skill also can become “too easy.” Do we answer the question, or just find more? Who is to say, what we can say however is it was an absolute joy working through these thoughts together with Trashalope. Favorite Quotes: “11,000 miles later I am at least competent in thru-hiking”. “You leave a little bit of yourself on trail.” “Even though trails wear different masks, they have the same root, exploration of self.” “I got a bag full of cheeseburgers and olive oil, let’s go!” “I want to feel like I’m new to something, feel the joy of learning something new again.” To learn more about Trashalope Instagram: @trail.Trashalope
To learn more about who we are click below:
Nov 15, 202201:17:17
What is Preparation?

What is Preparation?

Today we sit down with Constantine and Magpie and chat all things preparation! Magpie just woke up, we decided on the show’s theme 10 seconds before recording, and we have an energy drink, fully prepared, master class edition. We begin the show by discussing what you all demand, energy drink reviews! This weeks is Beaver Buzz - no that was not a typo, but instead the sweet nectar that is Canada’s nationality manifesting into an elixir from the Beaver Gods. We discuss its 17 years in business (quite amazingly), its tag line, and whether drinking “Beaver Juice” is a good idea or not. Hint, it is not! We then get into the meat of the show to talk about how we prepare for a thru-hike. We focus on our upcoming hike of the Te Araroa Trail (when you listen to this we should be on it) and our preparation process for this hike. We compare and contrast our preparation now compared to when we first began hiking with some anecdotes from Constantine’s first hike on the AT in 2016, and Magpie’s first on the CDT 2017. We chat the most important step, making the decision. We chat trail association’s information vs. a guy named Brett. We chat the fun of preparation, the gear involved and trail excitement correlation with trail prep. We chat van breakdowns, what to do with all your stuff, and perfume infused with the essence of beaver. We chat physical preparation for a hike and how it changed depending on the goal and trail you are doing, and how our physical prep has been consuming unhealthy amounts of cookie dough and pineapple buns. We chat how hikers (no matter their situation) will always budget. We chat the power of Fall and embracing your “Basicness.” We discuss a trail of only meat and cheese and confusing a hike with the life of a Hobbit. We discuss the Bell Curve of hiking, and once you hit the peak the quick acceleration back down to the bottom on the back side! We chat how to compartmentalize a hike and how to live off the land (not well). We chat Lulu Lemon and their next product line, credit card points, and flight bookings. We chat having tent stakes in all parts of the world and how that can be an amazing benefit. We chat what happens when you buy a child’s pair of shorts and hiking unbuttoned for 600 miles. We chat how controlling some part of the unknown such as food can be a good tactic to find comfort. We discuss how to be flexible and how this can become the most important part of planning, and how to discuss safety beforehand so in case you find yourself in an unsafe situation you will already know what to do. This episode is a true stream of consciousness so strap in for the ride, it gets wonderfully bumpy! Favorite Quotes: “We have a plan to make a plan.” “Rest of the trail I didn’t button up my pants 1 time” “My backpack is a Mary Poppins pack full of surprise.” “You have hiccups, burps, and you just sneezed.” “Grab a Beaver today and get your Buzz on!”(actual energy drink tagline) “Don’t base your preparation off this show.”
To learn more about who we are click below:
Nov 08, 202201:05:46
Who is She-Ra?

Who is She-Ra?

Today we sit down with the one and only "She-Ra" A.K.A Renee Patrick!

We begin the show with what it means to identify as a thru-hiker. Renee has been involved in the outdoor, backpacking, thru-hiking world for 20+ years now, and we dive into what it means to her to be a thru-hiker, and whether or not that definition has changed over the years. 

We dive deeper into time itself and as she describes it "Deep Time." Is there a finite amount of time needed to reach this type of time and what are the conditions that it is found? Along the way we go through her time in the outdoors and her progression into who she has become today. We start with her initial thru-hike on the Appalachian Trail back in 2002, and how the fire that began there, never was quenched. Travelling forward through 4 years of college to her next thru-hike on the Pacific Crest Trail in 2006, we chat the thoughts when she reached the point many in the outdoors eventually reach, the question of. "How can I make hiking my life?"

We discuss the growth from a hiker into making hiking your life. We chat Wilderness First Responder courses, meeting other hikers involved in the industry, and following your curiosity. We chat being open to wherever the job may take you and learning the lessons along the way. We learn the steps Renee took to follow her passion and create a life in the outdoors. 

We chat all things trail maintenance. We discuss the incredible amount of work that goes into even just a mile of trail. We wander the line of thought of when doing trail maintenance, when it is done the best, it is the least "seen" or "felt." We send out appreciation to all past, present, and future trail maintainers, for without them, well there would not be trails. 

We go into all things Blue Mountains Trail and Oregon Desert Trail. Two trail systems both located in the state of Oregon, which Renee has an important role in the decisions of trail routing, conservationism, and trail awareness. We discuss the missions of both trails, and how one goes about bringing the thought of conservationism to the forefront of each hiker's minds and most importantly actions. Is it the maps, the trail association, the individual's responsibility, the preparation, the information along the way, what are the ways and how does it become a reality? We discuss what a trail mean's when sometimes the very point of a "trail" is to not become a "trail."

We chat a pair of scissors and $5 per cut of hair "fundraising", the immensity of time in 6 weeks to build 30ft of trail, and the beauty of alternates. We discuss waypoints as suggestions, hiker-trash as a company, concept, responsibility, and connection amongst hikers. We discuss dirt being the greatest equalizer. We chat not being ashamed of one's stink and circle back to the definition of "thru-hike" and how it becomes different for every hike. 

As she puts it: "The trail is the unknown but the trail is also me." 

Truly a wonderful chat, thank you Renee! 


"I identify as a thru-hiker over most other things."

"I didn't really have the money, but I had the time."

"Follow your curiosity."

"Dirt is a great equalizer."

To learn more about She-Ra:

Instagram: @wearehikertrash


Oregon Desert Trail Website:

Blue Mountains Trail Website:

To learn more about who we are click below:


Nov 01, 202201:04:34
Who is Star Lord?

Who is Star Lord?

Today we sit down with the one and only Star Lord!

We instantly regret not getting the story behind his trail name, as one can only imagine, is he a lord, is he a star, is he the lord of all stars? Well one can only imagine...

We begin the show by quickly going into the only subject that matters, you guessed it MARMOTS! We hope that everyone takes a moment or 5 minutes, to lose themselves inside the joy, wonder, and unbridled love that is the cutest animal in the world, marmots. We then diverge to the questions that truly matter, like what would one's choice of "animal pokemon" would you chose in Wisconsin?

We chat when love surpasses porcupine quills, Twinkies on trail, and "knowing the suck." We get a quick background into Star Lord's progression into what he calls "basically just being a bum" or what others more commonly know as thru-hiking. We chat health on trail and the growth of a hiker through junk food, to healthy food, but mostly back to junk food. We chat about the progression of lightweight backpacking in Star Lord's hiking progress, and the journey to become quicker and lighter. 

We dive deep into many thoughts on the Appalachian Trail. We look into Star Lord's first long distance thru-hike and the mentality one has to have going into it and the mentality he had to maintain the joy in the journey. We talk wet. We talk the special wet of the Appalachian Trail, the only type of wet that matters, the AT rain and humidity. We dive into the appeal of hiking through 14 states, and the mentality of either getting used to it or going home.

We quickly touch on comparing the PCT and AT and West vs East hiking. Then the conversation takes on a wonderful ride along a "chatting rollercoaster" as we bounce from topic to topic. We chat near death in the Sierras, the Pacific Crest Highway, Bradwell Bay on the Florida Trail, and the crown jewel of hiking, the Continental Divide Trail. We chat route finding along the Hot Springs Trail, no filter no problem, and the underrated state of Wyoming.

We chat ground truthing and the mystery of "actual" miles done each day compared to "map" miles. We chat losing your mind to find your soul. We then dive fully into the Ice Age Trail which Star Lord finished only a few days prior. We chat about the passion of the IATA and all its volunteers and members, we discuss bars of the trail, trail magic, and road walking. We chat water carries, having a hiking companion, and assumptions vs reality along what he calls "The Florida
Trail of the Midwest."

We then finally arrive at the point in the show that we all have been waiting for... the cows of Wisconsin. Unfortunately, we get sidetracked only a few minutes into the "cow love" talk and don't give them the full time and honor they deserve, and for that we are eternally sorry. We chat cow averages per day, barbed wire fence restrictions, and embracing the only animal that matters besides marmots, the cow.

We wrap up the show with a Ramen Rating Review from Star Lord on his most recent hike, The Ice Age Trail. Wonderful rating... yet his flavor profile has us crying slightly inside.

Truly a wonderful chat with Star Lord, with many tangents, much emotion, and rambles that only two passionate hikers can accomplish together. Thank you Star Lord, now go please "knock on some corn" for good luck!


"Deep down every animal wants to be cuddled." 


"Everything wishes it could be a marmot."

"Weather is weather, whether you weather it or not."

"Life is short, the trail shorter."

To learn more about Star Lord:

Instagram: @chandlerstrailstories

To learn more about who we are click below:


Oct 18, 202201:07:31
Who is Larry Boy?

Who is Larry Boy?

Today we sit down to chat with the one and only Larry Boy! 

A conversation we have been really looking forward to for awhile, we begin the show by instantly diving deep into a tangent of thought, which will turn out to be foreshadowing for much of the show. Larry Boy is a wealth of knowledge and a wealth of emotion for all things outdoors, and it is a true joy to explore the way he sees and feels the world.

We discuss trail names and how they begin, how a person "defines" themselves inside of them, and the growth from the beginning to when one has been living this life in the outdoors for years. We chat about defining oneself through the relationships they have. In Larry Boy's case the relationships with God, family and friends, and then all things outdoor pursuit. We dive deeper into Larry Boy's definition and relationship with God, and what it means for him as a person as well as a hiker. 

We jump into all things maps. Paper maps as well as GPS app related maps. We discuss situational awareness, the "routing tiredness threshold", staying found, and different comfort levels in when and where to use types of maps. We hop into his progression into "thru-hiking" with his first hike on the Appalachian Trail back in 2013. We then dive deep into his journey towards happiness as he "breaks the mold" by not doing the classic progression of thru-hiking, chasing the Triple Crown, and going AT, PCT, CDT. Instead as you will hear Larry Boy completes his AT thru hike, and then wonderfully chooses his own adventure. We chat his hikes through Utah, trails outside of the Big 3, own route creations, and following his own happiness instead of being consumed into the "classic path."  

We dive deep into the ribs of this chat and talk all things RIB, or Route In Between. A route mapped and created by Larry Boy to connect the Arizona Trail into the Idaho Centennial Trail, thus creating another hiking route from Mexico to Canada. The in-between portion being about 1,000~ miles through Utah. A route that was mapped with the purpose of as Larry Boy puts it, seeking "true adventure." We chat about the prep, the planning, and then the groundtruthing of hiking the route. We discuss trail agencies and what he hopes to see in the future with this route. We also discuss giving back, to not just this specific trail, but all trails. The only way to get the maps and data for this route, is by sending in a picture of proof of trail maintenance done. A wonderful idea as the only way these trails continue to be accessible, hike able, and enjoyed now and in the future, is by giving back. 

We chat Day Hiking vs. Thru Hiking, "Brush Free Spots", and white blazes of the Hayduke Trail. We chat bedtimes, snowstorms,  and the complexity of what it means when your bad foot becomes your good foot. We chat injury and happiness, Sir Larry Boy, companionship in solitary exploration, being terribly "un-entrepreneurial", and rolling around the salt flats on a scooter. 

We then wrap up the show with a challenge to Big Tabasco! Come get us! 


" The trail is not necessarily the point."

"The concept of purism does not exist on the RIB"

"Anytime I get to spend outside, is time well spent."

"Faith is just as important to dealing with the bad as embracing the good."

"Sometimes you just got to chew your cud mentally."

To learn more about Larry Boy click below:

Instagram: @lbhikes


To learn more about us click below:


Oct 11, 202201:16:48
Who is Lyla?

Who is Lyla?

Today we sit down and have a chat with the one and only Lyla! 

We begin the show by instantly jumping into some heavy hitting topics. Lyla begins the show with very openly and honestly sharing her past journey with becoming sober, as well as finding herself. Lyla is as she describes it, a sober queer trans woman. We begin the show by unpacking what this has meant for her in the backpacking world as well as the journey of life before. 

We get a quick run down of the trails she has accomplished, beginning with the Appalachian Trail in 2021, the Bay Circuit Trail FKT in 2021, the Arizona Trail in 2021, the Pacific Crest Trail in 2022, and her most recent accomplishment, the Woman's Unsupported FKT of the White Mountains Direttissima. 

We then jump into her accelerated pace in the backpacking world, and the "Dipping the Toe" mentality compared to the "Consumption" mentality. We chat about her previous work in Youth Development and dive deeper into her early 30s getting sober and starting her gender transition. We chat having a sobriety plan for the AT, and how even though trails can be a place for growth, health, and meaning, they can also have triggers. She gives us her tips and tricks for choosing health and remaining on her plan.

We chat about being mis-gendered on trail and the types of interactions that can occur and the techniques she uses. We chat Confederate Flags Vs. Pride Flags, we chat finding your tribe on trail, and we chat FKTs.

We chat dreams of mozzarella sticks, eating sticks of butter, and swallowing peanut butter like a pill. We chat new levels of exhaustion, "inner-child work", and the growth found through tears. We chat deconstructing societal pressures, the physical and mental intensity of FKTs, and deep fears of being alone that transcend into strength. 

We chat connection and disconnection inside of this lifestyle. We chat "the Hamily", Declan and giving him all the butter, cashing out one's chips, and being okay with where life takes you.

We dive deep into her most recent accomplishment of setting the Unsupported Woman's White Mountains Direttissima FKT. We chat connected steps and her route of 230~ miles accomplished in 7 days, 11hrs, and 44 minutes. We chat 8 days of food and a pack weight of 31.5 pounds. We chat calorie consumption, familiarizing oneself with the route, her motto of "Everything will be okay", and finding deeper levels of strength. 

It shouldn't even have to be said, but sadly it still does because transphobia is still prevalent. Lyla has experienced push-back in our community with her FKT accomplishment, and that is not okay.  We here at Off Trail, recognize Lyla's achievement as becoming the holder of the Unsupported Woman's White Mountains Direttissima. We know our audience and believe you all do to, but as we wrap up the show, we chat about what we can do as a community to recognize this achievement, and Lyla puts it quite plainly, stand up, be vocal, and show your support. 

We end the show with a Ramen Rating Review. 

We ask everyone listening to show your support and be a voice for support. Lyla is the Unsupported Woman's FKT holder, simple as that. 


"Trans woman are woman."

"I got sober so I could do things, not so I could sequester myself from life."

"Can we just all agree not to eat butter and lard?!" 

"You don't have to be great all the time."

"Find people who share your values."

To learn more about Lyla click below:

Instagram: @seltzerskelter

To learn more about us click below:


Oct 04, 202201:05:44
Who is Eric Kipperman?

Who is Eric Kipperman?

First off we want to begin with a heartfelt apology to Etic, or Pure Stoke! We got so caught up in the excitement and as he put it "infectious joy" of sharing in hiking stories, that we did not even mention his trail name one time! Even after having a pre-show chat and apologizing beforehand about all the puns we would make from such a wonderful trail name. "Pure Stoke", Eric, we are sorry we must have gotten carried away...and we say it...purely stoked?!?

Today we begin the show by experiencing high levels of stoke, as we chat the stoke master himself, Eric Kipperman. We begin by jumping right into Eric's first long distance thru-hike, this year on the CDT or Continental Divide Trail. Quite a trail to tackle as the first, and we fully unpack the feelings involved. We begin to chat about handling New Mexico that experienced a early and intense fire season this year, and how the concept of the CDT quickly became evident. It was a journey, a trail full of alternates, pick your way to Canada and go north! We talk about the feelings involved in having to tackle such a massive re-route only 500~ miles into his first thru-hike, and what it felt like to move forward. 

We then take a stroll north through the CDT itself. Touching upon the early season in Colorado and high intensity snow fields and traverses. We bounce up to the Great Basin in Wyoming, where we chat about the lowest point of the trail emotionally, and how it became a highlight. We dust ourselves off as we head into the Wind River Range, where loss of a trail family member becomes a defining factor. We gander at the enormity of the sky itself as we talk all things The Big Sky Alternate. Diving deep into the reasoning, feel, logistics and choice of creating your own adventure on the CDT. We put our hand upon the terminus and breath the words to life of the feelings of "done."

We take deep dives into the feelings as Eric shares with us the journey, the thoughts, and the moments of a first thru-hike. Truly a special experience that he lets us feel and see through his eyes. From the beginning to the end, we feel the moments and learn what it means to go from avid outdoorsperson to one who is now "consumed" or "obsessed."

We chat about techniques of squatting to be shorter than the person next to you in thunder and lightning storms, we chat about the difference between dollops of cherries and dollops of ketchup, we chat PB cookies and brownies as a diet, and we chat the 5 headed pressure was shower of Montana.

We chat about coming to peace with a trail being over, this generations philosopher we all know as 50 Cent, and intimate and emotional relationships with pieces of gear. We chat Wild Bill and Open Carry, we chat homecoming feelings in a new perspective, we chat lowest lows and highest highs, we chat new confidence, mayors of small towns, connection and disconnection, closure, and opening a door that never again can be shut.

We end the show with a Ramen Rating Review and are extremely happy to hear Eric's rating... until it takes a dark and personally painfully turn to our hearts. 


"The CDT is a full bucket list of trails."

"It was a highlight because it was my lowest point on the trail."

"Instead of a cherry on was a dollop of Ketchup."

"The Philosopher 50 CENT said: Sunny days wouldn't be so special if it wasn't for rain."

"Where you been, where you are, where you want to be."

To learn more about Eric Kipperman visit him on LinkedIn and Strava

To learn more about us click below.


Sep 27, 202201:11:22
What is the Grand Enchantment Trail?

What is the Grand Enchantment Trail?

Today we sit down and chat with co-hosts Constantine and Magpie the grandest of trails, the most enchanting, the most...emotional, the Grand Enchantment Trail! 

We begin the show as we begin every show, with talking only and we mean only trail and hiking related content. That's right we discuss energy drinks! We get "Bucked Up" while drinking Bucked Up. Yes, that is not a euphuism, that is the actual name of the energy juice. As we crack the can we smell America, and guzzle some "Rocket Pop." 

After the most important part of the show we dive into all things the Grand Enchantment Trail. A wonderful route through Arizona and New Mexico that spans about ~766 miles. From just outside of Phoenix to Albuquerque the trail may begin and end in cities but goes into very remote territory. We discuss the "trail" conditions and the expectations when hiking a trail that is mostly a route.

We discuss and thank the creator of this route, Brett Tucker for making such an amazing journey. We chat about everything that wants to cut you, stick you, bite you, scratch you, and generally "ouch" you. We try and break down the trail by resupply points and wonderfully get lost in memories.

We chat the "town" that is not a town of Klondyke. We miss a fantastic opportunity to make a "what would you do for a Klondyke Bar" joke. We chat how not all miles are created equal. We chat about permits and being respectful to the trail so others can experience the beauty of this route in the future. We thank land owners, we talk about change in the route in the future, and we thank Brett again for all the work into creating a truly special, even enchanting, hike.

We give a shout out to Rocketman and talk soaking in the Gila Hot Springs. We chat "Horse Women" and hot spring shaming. We chat wild turkeys and what to do if a wild turkey falls on your head. We chat cinematic turkey silhouettes. 

We then transition into the sad portion of the show as we talk wildfires. We discuss being some of the last people in Diamond Creek to see it in all its grandeur. We chat the Black Fire and Bear Fire and the feelings of being stopped when physically and mentally we were ready to go. 

We discuss monsoon season, continuing and connecting footsteps, wilderness, and what it means to be a "thru-hiker." We chat about our New Mexico Grandmother. We chat shortcuts that are not shortcuts. 

We wrap the show with our realization that we had a blistering average of 3 miles per day when factoring in all of our "technical zeroes" on this trail due to wildfire season. 

We lose a part of ourselves to grow. 

Our ramen rating review takes a weird turn as we compare Creamy Chicken Ramen with Shrimp Ramen. How can it be so low but so high? Let's find out!

Thank you Brett Tucker, thank you Grand Enchantment Trail, thank you land owners, thank you for letting us grow.


"Brett knows Best!"

To learn more about who we are click the link below:

Off Trail Support:

Aug 30, 202201:14:03
What is the Continental Divide Trail?

What is the Continental Divide Trail?

What is the Continental Divide Trail?

Today we sit down and chat with Constantine and Magpie as they fight the good fight of not having an energy drink induced heart attack. 

We break down the walls of time with a double recording. As always... we must do another energy drink review even though we literally just finished the last. It is what the audience wants, it is what this LIVE show demands, we hear you loud and clear. 

Taking a dip back into the past we now take a deeper dive into Magpie's first thru-hike, the CDT. We chat the feelings of going into the "hardest" of the Big 3 trails first, what it means to be a Southbounder, and the glory of the state of Montana.

We chat relocating problem bears, the fear of Colorado, trail families along a less travelled trail, and shaking eyeballs. We chat the actual Continental Divide, trail towns of New Mexico, and alternates, alternates and more alternates. 

We dive into the tangent of hiking with someone from "real life." Whether that is a friend, acquaintance, best friend, we chat about the challenges this can cause. In theory a fabulous idea, but we talk about the great equalizing factor of the trail and how it can bring about different wants, needs, and choices of friends. There are some that have not only solved this issue but excelled, but our word of advice, meet those that click with you.

We chat about the diamond that is Wyoming, singing "I'm A Barbie Girl" enough times to reach insanity, and feelings of accomplishment. We chat "chasing the high" and how a great thing can lead to a time of not being in the moment. We try to bounce around the "Super Butte Cutoff" but very ineloquently say there is no right nor wrong, but people still can have their own opinions. 

We as always recommend not bear spraying a moose. 

We become parrots as we can't break past our Ramen Rating Review scores of the past few weeks.

We end the show with sweaty knees, moist palms, and a possible trip to the doctors office. 

(P:S: A joke, Constantine is well and fine... well physically at least)


"I am a Barbie Girl!"

To learn more about who we are click the link below:

Off Trail Support:

Aug 16, 202201:00:05
What is the Appalachian Trail?

What is the Appalachian Trail?

What is the Appalachian Trail?

Today we sit down and chat with co-hosts Constantine and Magpie all things Appalachian Trail. The trail that needs no introduction, no description, no embellishment. Known as the Grandfather of trails, you know it, we know it, most hikers and even non-hikers know it, so without further ado, let us define a trail that needs no definition! 

As always, we painfully begin the show with an energy drink review. We do not know how nor when this intro became our norm, but do not worry, we shall not disappoint you nor ourselves! We introduce our rock, our guiding post, our safe harbor... well more accurately THE ROCK's energy drink, Zoa! It becomes quite the journey.

After licking a coconut, we begin our chat on the Appalachian Trail. We chat trail community, we chat rain, rain and more rain. We chat first love, we chat steep learning curves, and we chat bunny slopes. We discuss bear canisters and come out of the proverbial bear den to state a quite unpopular opinion. We discuss responsibility, trail angels, trail towns, and the difference between NoBo and SoBo.

We then take a swift dive into the concept of freedom. Pulling ourselves up for a breath of air, we try to quickly tangent out of this minefield of a topic, but give our opinion nonetheless. We chat PG, PG-13, and R rated stories, being "bulky boys", broken knees, green tunnels, and faceplants. We chat pounds of ranch, pounds of carrots, two sleeping bags, an outfit for each day of the week, and electronics on the trail.

We discuss success rates with purely hypothetical statistics, we get in touch with our Tennessee roots, we touch on the "downside" of hitchhiking. We chat Naked and Afraid, the concept "AT hiker vibes", privy bonding, touching whiteblazes, and wildlife. We chat shelters, mistakes, and purism vs purity. 

We wrap the show with a very passionate Ramen Rating Review. A review from the heart but also from the trail. Hang on it gets a tad confusing.

Many conflicting feelings, emotions, and thoughts on this trail as it was Constantine's first. Hope some of it makes sense! 

Only one quote matters this week:

"The Appalachian Trail is Summer Camp"

To learn more about who we are click the link below:

Off Trail Support:

Aug 09, 202201:04:49
What is the Pacific Northwest Trail?

What is the Pacific Northwest Trail?

What is the Pacific Northwest Trail?

Today we sit down for a chat with co-hosts Magpie and Constantine, and well if you have been listening to our most recent episodes, you know how this begins... with an energy drink review!

The energy gets explosive with "C4", the one that we were too scared to try on the previous episode, but as we cant abide waste, we guzzle down this radioactive concoction of liquid Peach Mango drink, and once again test our hearts constitution to survive the episode. 

After a few sips, a few tangents, we dive into the basis of this episode, all things Pacific Northwest Trail. Just like the Peach Mango flavor in our mouths, we try and discern the flavor of this trail for you. A throwback as Constantine and Magpie hiked this back in 2019, it is time to put their memories to the test!

We chat elevation, camping, mileage, trail angels & trail devils. We break the discussion into states and resupply points, using the power of the energy drink and our foggy memories to try and accurately paint a picture of the PNT. We discuss bushwhacks, the Veg-O-Matic, permits, food carries, animal encounters, and the flavor of each town and section. We chat the "mystique" of the PNT and the reputation it has. 

We chat Glacier National Park, the loose definitions of what constitutes a town, alternates available, cheating if you do not take the official route of Bogachiel through Olympic National Park (not actually we just have many feelings about this piece of trail). We give a few shout outs to Horsepower who is out there stepping off the miles now and meeting all the wildlife and experiences the PNT has to offer. We chat finding a bushwhack where none have bushwhacked before! We chat bluffs, how not all beaches are created equal, and going for a unexpected swim deep in the ocean.

We wrap the show with our newly patented (not actually patented) Ramen Rating Review! 

The PNT gets a stellar average of 4.9 Ramens! 

Our highest rated ramen review yet. Magpie gave it a FULL Creamy Chicken ramen of 5 stars, while Constantine still believing no trail can be fully Creamy Chicken gave it a 4.9 rating. More accurately meaning you made a Creamy Chicken Ramen but added a tad bit too much water, and didn't get all the flavoring out of the package. 


"It slices, it dices, it is the Veg-O-Matic!" 

"Stay Cognizant TM."

"My favorite trail, perfect mix."

To learn more about who we are click the link below:

Aug 03, 202201:19:28
What is the Wonderland Trail?

What is the Wonderland Trail?

What is the Wonderland Trail?

Today we sit down and chat with Constantine and Magpie about all the wonders of the Wonderland Trail. No irony is needed nor sarcasm sassed when we indeed say it is wonderful. 

We begin the show by instantly diving into a tangent, but then of course we use the upmost elegance and smooth tones to begin the multi-minute transition away from pure power into permits. We discuss all things Wonderland Permits. The use of Recreation.Gov to book ahead of time, the chance of walk up permits, luck of the draw with certain campsites, a "secret" way to hike without permits (NOTE: it is NOT saying don't use a permit, instead it mentions how to create an intense itinerary to avoid the permitted campsites).

We discuss circles and how just because it is a circle does not mean it is easy. As the saying goes, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... well you aren't going to fool me again!" We shall not be fooled again, third time is the charm. Circles do not equate to easy.

We discuss how to define beauty when literally 80% of the entire hike is gorgeous. We discuss the obstacles of the Wonderland Trail, including the Mowich River, the steep elevation gain and descent daily, snow travel, river crossings, suspension bridges, and most importantly injury prevention. We dive deep into this thought line as Magpie called the hike Day 3, no longer being able to safely continue forward without causing serious injury. 

When hiking with a romantic partner, friend, hiking buddy, comrade, trail family, whoever you may be hiking with, it is important to have these types of conversation beforehand. The conversations of "What If?" 

Nothing is more important than the safety of those around you while hiking. It is an immense privilege to be able to share in the happiness, love and togetherness of a trail, and also a responsibility. When hiking with others make a plan, read the situation, and act accordingly. 

We chat rookie mistakes, disappearing socks, thermal persuasion, finger-hills not being hills, and the constant curse of having piping plover legs. We chat hamburger feet, bridges that are not bridges, marmot smooching, pika picking, and beaver cuddling. We discuss the difference of being in thru-hiking shape and just "regular shape." We chat all things HYOH (do not even like writing out the term much less saying it... but we find ourselves in this tangent and have to unpack our feelings and then quickly tangent away before our emotions overheat). 

On our ramen rating review scale this hike gets a 4.5 out of 5 ramens. A mix between Roast Chicken and Creamy Chicken. 

Most importantly we: "Study Xyscience while being Rowdy and talking to Yerbae."

Truly a wonderful trail, highly recommend the Wonderland Trail.


"It is a privilege and responsibility when sharing the trail with others."

"French kiss a marmot." (DISCLAIMER: DO NOT!)

"The more we hike the less we know what we are doing."

"I looked at my wrist for the time again... still don't have a watch."

To learn more about who we are click the link below:

Jul 27, 202201:18:39
What is the Lost Coast Trail?

What is the Lost Coast Trail?

What is the Lost Coast Trail?

Today we sit down to discuss a short but sweet trail... and promptly go off the rails! 

Hosts Constantine and Magpie begin the show with an introduction to the stats of the Lost Coast Trail. A trail that spans 25.3~ miles along the King's Coast in Northern California, it covers surf, sand, mountains and bluffs...and that is just the terrain. It has sweeping views, tidal zones that must be traversed safely, wildlife swimming in the waves and tanning in the sand. All the joys of a long thru-hike can be found within its comfortable distance. 

After going over the access to the trailhead and the permitting process for the trail the conversation begins to take a turn. A turn for the better, or for the worse? Who is to say... what we can say however is that it indeed takes a sharp left, right, circular, perpendicular, pentagonal turn towards both our hosts internal mid-life crisis'. In what form do people in their late twenties have mid-life crisis, and what does that look like? Well, you are going to have to listen to find out, but we will tell you it involves backpacking "vs." thru-hiking, bandwidths of suffering, broken knees and lower backs, and more than a fair share of "Xyience"! 

Traversing back off an emotional tangent, our hosts begin discussing the intricacies of the trail. The play-by-play of miles, the tidal zones and where they are located, the flavor of the miles, camping locations, water sources, wildlife, weather patterns, travel to and from both terminus, amount of hikers and everything you need to know to hike and access the Lost Coast Trail.

We chat why Xyience is indeed better than science and how one could even argue one created the other, a real chicken and egg scenario. We chat big creeks, cuddly Elephant Seals (Disclaimer: DO NOT cuddle), mindset of hiking and thru-hiking, laundry and chickens, a vending machine that mysteriously dispenses dimes/nickels/ and even a dollar coin?! We chat the definition of pulling a "Classic Constantine", foot issues, rotten spaghetti (yes, literally rotten), and drinking from the fountains of youth we call Xyience (no, not literally but certainly figuratively). 

We wrap up the show with an impromptu Ramen Rating Review. Cementing the reason why our hosts are together as to their two lowest rated ramen and two highest rated ramen were the same! Those that rate ramen together... well probably are a tad malnourished and nutritionally deficient... but at least suck down salt packets with a grimace on their faces and a smile in their hearts. 

A very fun, weird, and perfectly unexpected turn of an episode. Seems apt for the flavor of where we are figuratively, literally (no not literally, but yes actually literally) and where we are spiritually, (yes spiritually, akin to those Elephant Seals along the Lost Coast Trail, cuddling, feeding our blubber reserves, and waddling our way forward through this metaphorical deep sand shores of life.)

Anyway... great trail, would recommend. 


"Blubbery, cuddly, kissable, bundles of joy"

"Tastes like salty memories of soup"

"Depends how you define a Big Creek"

To learn more about who we are click the link below:

Jul 19, 202201:11:47
What is The Bigfoot Trail?

What is The Bigfoot Trail?

What is the Bigfoot Trail?

First thing is first, a massive thank you must be given to the Bigfoot Trail Alliance (the overseeing organization that created this trail and manages it), although there may be some colorful language used in this episode to describe portions of the trail, we want the Bigfoot Trail Alliance to know that we greatly appreciate and respect the massive amounts of work needed to maintain a trail like this and truly are grateful for the route creation and continued growth.  

Today we sit down and have a nice, long, "unbiased", slightly informational, mostly emotional, chat. 

Host Constantine is joined by Horsepower (first recurring guest on our show, so... commence "medal ceremony") as they are fresh off completing their thru-hike of the Bigfoot Trail. Completed on July 2nd, we catch up with them on July 3rd, so please forgive them if the emotions are still running high, well maybe not forgive.. but at least have context before the show begins. 

The Bigfoot Trail is a 358~ mile trail that spans from Ides Cove in Northern California to Crescent City a coastal town in Northern California. Along the way you traverse through multiple wilderness areas, touch the PCT or Pacific Crest Trail for a few miles, quickly dip a toe into Oregon  and then just as quickly come back to Northern California. It traverses through 32 different type of conifer trees per their website, and in general is a beautiful trail, brutal, but beautiful. 

Horsepower and Constantine sit down and give a synopsis of the 14 days it took to hike this trail. They begin at day 1, with sleeping in the fetal position, bushwhacking through thick thorns, the difference between THICC and THIQQ, and continue from there revealing stories shared, pain experienced, and beauty seen. 

We chat about Hayfork and its wonderful Mexican cuisine (seriously), we chat about good wounds vs. bad wounds and we chat the mysterious "RV Camp in the middle of the Trinity Wilderness. We talk about Horsepower's "Tent Juke" technique for mosquitoes, carrying 6 sets of clothes, a fun game we played called Rattlesnake Roulette, and how Constantine is an old man in... well an old man's body.

We chat about 1700 miles vs. 200 miles and the "worth" of a mile, we chat peanut butter and soda fueling techniques, we chat oozing and blistering legs, and we chat about Playing Basketball in Pelican Bay! (Training Day reference)

All jokes aside, this episode is meant to be informational as the Bigfoot Trail is still growing with its map data, trail conditions, and awareness, so we hoped to shine more light on a trail system that really is beautiful, and yes brutally difficult. 

We chat about the difference between the Big 3 trails and these smaller trails regarding their support, infrastructure, and trail maintenance. We chat about the "flavor" of the Bigfoot Trail and how everyday there will be some form of bushwhack and intense climbs, we talk about trail conditions and alternates, and we go over in detail the essence of what it means to hike the Bigfoot Trail. 


"You usually always go up, its more punishing"

"I wasn't going to use that same F word..."

"Tone for trail: bushwhack, bears, a lot of climbing"

"Disclaimer for whole BFT: check your maps often."

"If your legs are oozing any type of liquid... go to a doctor."

To learn more about Horsepower check out the link below:

Instagram: @naturalhorsepower

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Jul 12, 202201:16:50
Who is Impala?

Who is Impala?

We have the privilege today of speaking with the one and only, Impala!

Today we begin the show with some wonderful English idioms as we learn about Impala. We chat about being born in the UK and his father's influence on him as a travelling man. We dive deeper into the backstory of his relationship with his father, and how the artist's mind is one of wonder and wander.

We get sucked deep into a conversation around the UK's National Trails. We chat about the similarities and differences of hiking in the US Vs. hiking in the UK. We chat about "stealth camping" and the infrastructure of the trails in England and Scotland. We chat about the lengths of the UK's National Trails and the possibility of hiking all of them (if desired) in a single hiking season. 

We chat about Impala's route that he has called the "Mighty Blighty." A trail system that is still being officially created called the English Coast Path, with a special extra twist, as Impala hopes to connect all his footsteps, and the only way to do that is, continue across through Scotland to rejoin the English coast on the other side. We talk trail conditions, and the burden that flat miles can put on one's body. Sometimes surprisingly consistent days of flat terrain hurt the body more, than climbing and descending. We chat about how Impala navigates a yet to be completed trail, and how if the ocean remains on his left hand side, it should be fine! 

We chat about trail community and what one does when there are not many hikers around. We chat about Impala's first thru-hike on the Te Araroa and what seed was planted along this hike in his brain to continue to pursue hiking year after year. We talk about the connection and disconnection of living a nomadic life and we chat about how Impala manages his Off Trail time. We talk about the pros and cons of Instagram, we chat about being home while on trail, and we chat about never being bored in this lifestyle. 

We chat about being an "addict" for trail, we chat about mind games to hold onto sanity while hiking canals, we chat about becoming the most renowned and professional tiddlywinks player in the UK, we chat about bonds formed from only a few days of hiking together and the strength they can create, we chat about Meander, we chat about spirituality and being connected to the world around you, we chat about "doing miles, and making smiles", we chat about how saying hi to people can become a wonderfully entertaining and even enlightening game, and much more. 

Honestly, one of our favorite chats, as throughout this episode, you can really and truly feel who Impala is, and feel the kindness in his thoughts and words. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Impala, thank you for sharing some time and your story with us!


"If I got my pack on, I know everything is going to be alright."

"When you spend more time outside, you become more in tune with everything."

"If everyone went backpacking the world would be a better place."

"I am a professional tiddlywinks player."

"I just became a complete addict [referring to hiking]"

To learn more about Impala click below:


Instagram: ImpalaOnTrail

YouTube: ImpalaOnTrail

To learn more about us click below:


Jun 21, 202201:02:27
Who is Backcountry Foodie?

Who is Backcountry Foodie?

We have the privilege today of speaking with the one and only, Aaron of Backcountry Foodie!

Today we begin the show by learning a little bit about Aaron's background in nutrition and hiking and how it led her to create Backcountry Foodie. We learn about how the hiking nutrition on the market was not catered to individualistic output and calorie consumption while on trail and how she used her skills as a dietician to change this.

We chat about her love for food, and her love for high quality food that is right for your body. We dissect the pros and cons of a thru-hiking diet, and while it may fill up a hiker's stomach, it may not be giving the correct nutrients to the hiker's body. We chat about vitamin deficiency and the difference between a habitual mile stepper and someone who is choosing a thru-hike as a one time adventure. We learn that multiple years of a "thru-hikers diet" can lead to unwanted deficiency in the body, and begin to regret our doughnut consumption the hike before this chat...

We chat about the calorie density and nutrition in dehydrated food compared to regular food, and that it can lose up to 50% of its vitamins! We ask Aaron's recommendations on how to eat healthier and supplement a thru-hiking diet until making the fuller transition into healthier food choices.

We chat about the growth of Backcountry Foodie over the years, and how Aaron went from writing cookbooks, to nutritional coaching for hikers, to masterclasses in hiking nutrition, and how she has tied in all her experience with the above and more, to create a healthy choice for hikers. With over 209 recipes there is something for everyone. They even have a meal planning platform, which is an automated tool that can make a shopping list for you! Eating healthy has never been made so easy!

We chat about Aaron's hike of the PCT, OCT, and the Condor Trail and how every hike has given them the opportunity to continue to grow their knowledge of the human body and hiking. We learn how every hike is different, not just the miles done, but the terrain, the weather, the navigation, the bushwhacking, all play important roles in the food that should be eaten.

We chat about "stockpiling calories", we chat about not using soda or beer as a form of nutrition while in town, we chat about meal replacement drinks and how baby formula while nutritional requires a strong gut and an even stronger will to drink, we chat about how every resupply is different due to the trail and the needs of the body, we chat about 400lbs of food prep and dehydrating your own tuna, and we chat plastic mountaineering boots, to name a few. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Aaron from Backcountry Foodie, thank you for sharing some time and your story with us!

P:S: As a special treat, all our listeners can use the promo code: OFFTRAILPODCAST at for a 20% discount!


"Food is medicine."

"I don't like using thru-hiking as a weight loss program, if you are losing weight you are not fueling your body to peak performance."

"When hikers say they can't do it, I am going to challenge you again."

"You can eat healthy at the dollar store."

"I just want to help anyone that wants to feel better."

To learn more about Aaron and Backcountry Foodie click below:


YouTube: BackcountryFoodie

Instagram: @BackcountryFoodie

To learn more about us click below:


Jun 14, 202201:05:08
Who is Pony?

Who is Pony?

We have the privilege today of speaking with the one and only, Pony!

Today we begin the show by wishing we had been recording the "pre-chat" portion with Pony beforehand. As you will find out as we get deeper into the episode, he is a fantastic storyteller and his thoughts and perspectives around hiking and the trail, are refreshing to say the least. 

We hop right into the show as Pony brings us through the evolution from Clay Bonneyman Evans to how he defined it as finding his "alter ego" of Pony. We chat about his introduction into the "thru-hiking world" and how it just clicked with his brain and how he operates. We dive into what this means, what does it mean when he says, "it works for my brain?"

Keep your hats on because we dive deep into the perspectives and outlooks on the massively popular (and directly massively unpopular with thru-hikers) books "Wild" and "A Walk in the Woods" by Cheryl Strayed and Bill Bryson. Once again, a truly refreshing take as we chat about the goals of these books, and why they are perceived so negatively by hikers, when in fact they are truly inspirational and great storytelling. 

We quickly avoid the hornets nest that is documenting your hike by video on trail, and lightly tread, but just for a moment, upon the thoughts and feelings around this growing activity. 

We chat about Pony and how writing is his process for understanding his journey. Not just his hiking journey's, but this journey through life. We talk about his process and how he remains in the moment on trail, while continuing to pursue his passion. We chat about his growth as a writer and author throughout the years. 

We go deep into the "Red-Lining" concept. A very deep dive as it is something both Pony and ourselves are passionate about. We chat about the dangers of being too much of a purist, and the growth of the trail community as it begins to tackle this very turbulent concept. We chat about how this concept can be utilized on some trails, while others it is not only impossible, but not even safe. It unravels from here, the threads of this thought continue for many minutes. 

We chat about hiking clean and the feelings it invokes in body and mind. We chat about the CDT and bear tub claws on the PCT. We chat about writing and the feeling of being a character in a story, we chat about being in a "snow globe world",  we chat about the "Blowdown, Snowdown, Hodown", we chat about connection and relationships off trail while being on trail, we chat about not receiving merit badges for suffering, we chat about his wife and my mother knowing each other in this small world we call thru-hiking (Hi Jodi and Sundance!) and we get wonderfully lost in Pony's gift for storytelling. To name a few.

Truly a wonderful chat with Pony, thank you for sharing some time and your story with us!


"My brain is at its best when it is on trail"

"I have to write about it, because writing about it is who I am"

"Every footstep you take literally brings you into a new reality"

"The trail is a stage on which I as a human can be fully myself"

To learn more about Pony and read his books click below:



To learn more about us click below:


Jun 08, 202201:17:13
Who is Cal or Starburst?

Who is Cal or Starburst?

We have the privilege today of speaking with the one and only, Starburst! 

Today we begin the show or more accurately jump right into it! Skipping over our usual first open ended question that begins the show, Cal quickly lets us know who they are with some amazing stories and insights into the mind of a perpetual mile stepper. Cal is set to become the first (known) trans hiker to complete the Triple Crown and Great Western Loop. More importantly they are doing it for a reason, for themselves and for others. 

Being inspired from a hiker they met along the way named Sandman, Cal tells us the story of how they began to germinate the idea of connecting their footpath in a loop called the Great Western Loop. A 7,000+ mile trail system that combines the PCT, CDT, PNT and other pieces together. Yet, more importantly, we talk on what this means to them, not as a "physical goal" but instead what it means to them to stand up for what they believe in.

Cal tells us of the feeling of responsibility they feel as a trans/queer person to use the platform they have to help create more inclusion, acceptance, and awareness in the trail community. We unpack this feeling of responsibility and learn about its growth and how it has affected them along with the hikers their story touches. 

We chat about the Trevor Project, an organization that creates a home for LGBTQ youth and builds projects and community while spreading awareness. We chat about how Cal's hike is more than "just a hike" for themself, and is a way to give back to this community through a fundraiser, as well as to give back to the hiking trans/queer community.

Magpie and Cal compare and contrast the growth of the hiking community at large over the past few years from stories from both of their hikes and experiences. They talk about the change they have both seen, and talk about the continuation of finding a place of comfort and safety inside of the outdoors. 

We talk about the connection/disconnection pursuit of long distance hiking has on friends, family, and community back home. How do you stay in touch with a community when you are nomadic? How do you have the time? A question we ask every guest, and a question that never has just one answer. We talk about how there are only three reasons a healthy person should be urinating blood. A kidney stone, rigorous sex, or too much exercise, and how Cal's partner after a 50~ mile day is still trying to figure out which one it was...

We chat about Lil Buddha, we chat about the feeling of home while being on trail, we chat about the responsibilities of having a voice for change and using it, we chat about meeting a partner in this community, we chat about Instagram, and we chat about the "linear ladder" of pursuing goals and breaking this "perfectionist" mold. To name a few.

Truly a wonderful chat with Cal, as we wish them luck on many great adventures ahead! 


"I lost my extended family not became I came out as trans...but because I came out as a thru-hiker!"

"Pursuing your dreams is professional development."

"Everyone knows queer/trans people, and if you don't think you do, you definitely do."

"When I am on trail, I am home and I feel like I return to who I am supposed to be."

To learn more about Cal and support the Trevor Project:

Instagram: @cal_hikes

Trevor Project: A Penny Per Mile by Cal Dobbs

To learn more about us click below:


May 31, 202201:14:41
Who is Rowdy Energy? (Season 2)

Who is Rowdy Energy? (Season 2)

Who is Rowdy Energy? How did we #getsponsored by Rowdy Energy? What is Rowdy Energy?

These burning questions and more will answered in our Season 2 Opener!

Welcome to Season 2 of the Off Trail Podcast. In all seriousness, we have a fun episode for you all to introduce you to our new season.

With no guest this week, the co-hosts, Magpie and Constantine, sit down to share some stories with you.

There is much to cover in this episode, and all the sponsorships in the world from #RowdyEnergy would not be enough to power a laptop in a BLM campground with no electricity, so the energy is quick, frantic, and a tad bit rowdy as our co-hosts try to cover all the topics they wish to discuss before the power goes out.

The show begins with a quick chat about what the co-hosts have been up to recently such as the Hayduke Trail and Grand Enchantment Trail. More so routes than trail systems, we discuss the intricacies of what it means to hike a trail that is a route. You know how the saying goes... not all routes are trails, but all trails are routes, you know like the square and rectangle debate? 

We then digress as we talk about our new shows sponsors at #RowdyEnergy and the extreme gratitude, love, and appreciation we feel for being partnered with such an amazing product/team/organization/lifestyle. 

We chat about the future of this podcast moving forward into Season 2. We highlight the structure and concept of this show, and how while at its heart it will still remain the same, focusing on the how and the who, not the what, there will be more conversations and stories shared about companies of all sizes. Tying in an individuals stories and a companies fascinates us, and we hope it fascinates you too, as we hope to spread the stories behind the growth, evolution, and sacrifices it takes to pursue what you love. 

We chat about our new campaign, that is abbreviated as #DGAS, and are thrilled to announce it so repetitively and frequently that we ourselves may end up wanting to jump into incoming traffic. 

Again, we joke... well mostly, there are some statements that remain true, but this podcast is meant to be fun and informative and that is the way we always hope to keep it.

In all seriousness, we discuss fire closures, the "ending" of a "thru-hike", the Grand Enchantment Trail in detail, planning alternate routes and the difference between 1,000+ mile trails and smaller routes, NCT level humor, Magpie's comparison of Constantine to a famous artist and how his humor is art, and just like Monet and Rembrandt not fully appreciated in his time, and we talk about Jeannie and Kyle, the 8th and 9th people to hike the GET, and how amazingly lucky and blessed we were to meet them. Thank you. 

We end the show with a call out to all adventurers, hikers, backpackers, bikepackers, rafters, wanderers, dirtbags....any and all outdoorspeople, if you power this life with your body and mind, we want to share your story. 

Follow us over on Instagram @offtrailpodcast and send us an email

To be inspired check out Kyle and Jeannie's links below:




To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

May 24, 202247:20
Who is Triple Crown Coffee?

Who is Triple Crown Coffee?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Cookie Monster and Triple Crown Coffee!

Today we begin the show with an EPIC trail name story. By far one of the funniest and best stories we have heard in a long time, if you assume the name Cookie Monster comes from liking cookies, well you are not wrong, but there is so much more behind it!

We laugh our way into learning about Cookie Monster's 25+ years of adventure life. Beginning with his passion to explore overseas, and then transitioning to a passion in 2008 with his first thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail, to revolving his life around the trail. Or more accurately adventure life, he has lived a very colorful and wonderful life full of variety and we dive into the thoughts and feelings behind it.

We dive into the similarities and "differences" between the international travel community and the trail community. We chat about his love and passion of the community that continues to make him the best version of himself. 

We chat about the ethos and daily life working for a company such as REI and Patagonia, and dive deeper into what these companies came to represent to Cookie Monster's experience. 

We chat about Triple Crown Coffee, and how the company was born from a thru-hiker, and then stayed within the community. We chat about Cookie Monster's passion combining with his work, and how he still finds joy within each. We chat about giving back as he put it " support the trails, one cup at a time." We chat about ethically sourcing coffee and maintaining the entire supply chain to make sure that every piece of the puzzle is equitable. 

We chat about trails, we chat about business, we chat about giving back, we chat about how every pound that Triple Crown Coffee sells, a $1 is donated back to the trail. 

Too many wonderful quotes to list, Cookie Monster has a very eloquent way of talking and framing thoughts, we really enjoyed his take on many of the subjects that continue to have us wondering. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Cookie Monster & Triple Crown Coffee, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"Trail is a mirror, trail is a reflection, of the journey we have through life"

"The interesting thing about goals is they continually move, as soon as you "score" one goal, it becomes what's next?"

"Thru-hiking is such a gift and blessing in my life... I want to make sure these trails are protected into propriety"

To learn more about Triple Crown Coffee and get involved check out the link below:



To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

May 03, 202201:11:32
Who is Canary?

Who is Canary?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Canary!

Today we are able to catch up and chat with Christopher Blackwell, or Canary, less than a week before he begins his attempt at a Supported Fastest Known Time for the Calendar Year Triple Crown. This means hiking the Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, and Continental Divide Trail well within a calendar year. He hopes to break the previous record set by Swami at 236 days, and set the new record around 220 days.

We chat about his mental and physical prep work to tackle such a endeavor. The prep work that began years ago that has been leading to this moment. We talk about his planned Appalachian Trail 2020 thru hike, and how the pandemic changed his plans. Instead of being deterred we chat about how refreshing it is to see and hear how he continued to pursue his passion and hikes in the outdoors. Transitioning to climbing mountains in the Smokies and in the Southern Appalachians, he continued to pursue his happiness.

We dive deep into the mental preparation that it takes as you learn from life. From previous hikes, from daily life, from childhood, continually learning how to harness the mentality and strength inside and how it transitions to the trail.

We chat about his partner, Bell, who will be supporting him along his hike. We chat about the benefits and perceived difficulties that can arise when planning something this intense with another. We learn that both him and his partner have two individual goals that have combined into a together goal, and how this leads to cohesiveness and happiness.  

We chat about his inspirations, we chat about his proposed route, we chat about the Adirondacks Winter Route, we chat about suffering, we chat about harnessing strength, acceptance, and peace. 

Disclaimer: This will be published when he is a month or two into his hike, so to a future and to a past Canary, keep getting after it! 

Truly a wonderful chat with Canary, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"[I want] to look back to that kid and be the vision that would lead me forward during my darkest nights"

"I am going into this because I know it is going to change me"

"Every time someone does a huge thing, it raises everyone up to the possibilities"

To learn more about Canary and get involved check out the link below:

Instagram: @chrisvaughnblackwell

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Apr 26, 202201:18:39
Who is GingerBallz?

Who is GingerBallz?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, GingerBallz!

Today we sit down and chat with GingerBallz, a man that was inducted into the hiking community back in 2018 with his first thru-hike on the Appalachian Trail, and has been completely consumed ever since. 

We chat about his progression towards the Triple Crown, we chat about his learning curve on the AT, and how he met a friend named Scrapbook one of his first days out there. Both looking at each other with the thought of "how are they going to survive this?" and both not only succeeding but exceling together and individually along the way. 

We chat a lot, quite a lot, if we see a lot one more time, will you understand how much we talk about dog mushing. We talk about it a lot! Another activity/lifestyle/job/community that he has begun to pursue. We chat about the parallels between dog mushing and hiking, we chat about the parallels of how he is choosing to live his life on and off trail, and we learn that as the trail is to hikers, dogs are to mushers. The love, connection, and sometimes reverence for the very essence of what allows us to pursue these lifestyles. 

We chat about how he learned about the Appalachian Trail, about how when he pursues an activity whether that is biking, marathons, triathlons, hiking, or dog mushing he consumes himself fully within it. 

We chat about where sunscreen needs to be applied to dogs while on a glacier, we chat about sacrifices needed to live a life of adventure, we chat about falling multiple times a day on the Long Trail, we chat about freedom in letting go of rigidity and letting the moment take you where it will. 

Truly a wonderful chat with GingerBallz, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"I woke up at one point and said I a, going to walk from Georgia to Maine"

"The relationships to the dogs are everything"

"I am going with the flow and learning to appreciate that"

To learn more about GingerBallz and get involved check out the link below:

Instagram: @hiking_ginger_b

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Apr 19, 202201:05:23
Who is Phil Perry?

Who is Phil Perry?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Phil Perry!

Today we have a very special episode for you all. We focus around a subject that is heavily prevalent in the outdoors, but that is difficult for some to talk about. We wanted to have this guest on due to him being very open and honest about this piece of the outdoor community. Today we talk about sobriety. 

We sit down with Phil Perry, a very vocal advocate for sobriety, to learn about his journey in and through sobriety, and how the outdoors and hiking has been a place of peace for him. 

We chat about the stigma that can come attached to alcoholism or substance abuse, and how it can lead to guilt and shame that is self-created. Yet, when shared with others whether that be friends and family, others within the outdoor community, others within the sober community, however you wish to define it, when it is shared there is power within.

We chat about how Phil reclaimed his love and passion for the outdoors, and has now found a love within hiking that is consuming. From the planning aspect, to the prep, to the hiking, every part of it he sees as a piece to fuel his fire of happiness. 

We chat his inspirations come from the everyday, the "every person". Whether that be in the sober community or hiking community the person that is out there doing 1 mile, 2 miles, 5 miles, 10 miles, as long as they are out there seeking happiness, those people are the ones that continue to inspire him the most. 

We chat about his sobriety and how his platform on Social Media came about from originally a friend suggesting to share it with others to create another "check and balance." Then how it propelled into many people sharing in togetherness in sobriety, in the power of being together, and how it now helps his goal to spread the message that "you are never alone" to anyone that he can.

There is too much to unpack in a description for this episode, so instead we will end it how Phil ended it.

"You should never suffer in silence, reach out.... we are here." 

Truly a wonderful chat with Phil Perry, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.

Disclaimer: We by no means hold any expertise in the field of sobriety, and this was our first experience in trying to share a story of this magnitude with others, so please forgive us if we did not ask the "correct" questions, or used terms that were not correct in this community. We only hoped to continue to learn, and this was a part of it. 


"If it resonates with one person I have done my job"

"It starts you thinking, what else am I capable of?"

"If I can be more vocal and it can help out one more person, it is something I have to do"

To learn more about Phil Perry and get involved check out the link below:

Instagram: @ Phil__Perry

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Apr 12, 202201:11:10
Who is Slider?

Who is Slider?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Slider!

Today we sit down and chat with Slider. We chat quite a lot about her hiking, more specifically her hiking with a plastic trombone. We hyper focus on the why behind carrying an instrument that one does not commonly associate with hiking trails. We hear some of the stories from the trail and how she used this instrument both physically to add music to her hikes, and how she used it metaphorically to connect her to her music life.

We chat about her passion for music on and off trail. We chat about her previous "zero interest" in section hikes and how amazing it is that the same activity that instead is longer and further such as a thru-hike is a world of difference. We chat about her progression from not one to necessarily "like" setting goals, to how thru-hiking taught her goal setting was something she appreciated.

We chat about her in-between times between hikes, and how she managed the Off Trail time and stay connected to the community that she loved. We chat about her opportunity this year as she once again transitions back out east for the season to pursue a job within the outdoors that she is passionate about. 

We chat about the differences between East and West coast hiking and how both are beautiful, but very different. We chat about the Continental Divide Trail in 2021 and managing the hazards and logistics along the way.

We wag our sass finger at Dine N Dash, a previous guest, as Slider and him were a part of a trail family together, and we just now learned about it! 

We chat about the plastic trombone, and the fact that it has now gone on 2 out of the 3 Big Trails, and how it's destiny is now to continue onwards to finish up all 3. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Slider, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"I hike and play the trombone"

"Escape from the monotony of what we call a normal life"

"You can get along with anyone out there, that is the type of community it is"

To learn more about Slider and get involved check out the link below:

Instagram: @tromboneandhike

TikTok: @tromboneandhike

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Apr 05, 202201:08:32
Who is Town Shirt?

Who is Town Shirt?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Dylan "Pickle" Tonkin!

Today we sit down and chat with "Pickle" the owner and founder of Town Shirt Company. A backpacking and more specifically a apparel company that creates wonderfully unique designs for hiking shirts that encompass the very trails with which they were inspired from. PCT and AT designs that showcase the scenes that elicit remembrance and emotion in the hiker. 

We chat about Pickle's inspiration to start a company and it stemming from finding a way to stay involved and connected in the community that he stated "makes me the best version of myself." We chat about his desire and his implementation of interweaving many other people within the outdoor and specifically hiking community into his business. Creating a trail family, off the trail. 

We chat about the learning process behind creating an apparel business, and how the intricacies once the journey begins are more than anticipated. We chat about his goal of giving back to the very trail associations that inspire his creations. 

We chat about Pickle not eating one package of ramen on his entire PCT hike, we double check to make sure he is not a Penguins fan before continuing the show, and we chat about the story behind his trail name.

We dive deeper into the connection behind a "common Dropbox" of food out on his PCT thru-hike. The connection between him and his now wife, that made the food resupply boxes much more than just a common Dropbox. 

We dive deeper into Town Shirt and learn about its journey thus far, we learn about its involvement within the hiking community, and we learn that its goal is to continue to give back and grow inside of and with the hiking community. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Pickle from Town Shirt, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"I am a talker and a walker"

"Town Shirt, this is my thru-hike"

"Overcoming the internal Dylan, to become Pickle"

To learn more about Town Shirt and get involved check out the link below:



To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Mar 29, 202201:07:33
Who is Bopit?

Who is Bopit?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Bopit!

Today we sit down to chat with Bopit as she takes time from her current Florida Trail Thru Hike, well second Florida Trail Thru Hike to catch up with us. Please excuse the audio as we are recording while she was at a corner store called JR's (for those of you who have hiked you know it, for those of you who haven't well picture chickens, pigs, and the friendliest people you ever met, and you will know it!).

We share many stories of miles shared, and dive deeper into her hiking progression and background. 

In the year of 2021, her and her partner Punisher, hiked from Key West to Katahdin, and then went straight over to the Continental Divide Trail and completed a thru-hike Southbound. Even though, the premise of the show is not one to focus on miles, we talk heavily about this subject this episode, not as much the physical aspect, but the mentality behind the miles.

She has crushed miles, doing over 7,000 in 2021, and the reason we quantify it with a number here, is because of her change this year of 2022. She now is purposely re-hiking a trail she has hiked to slow down, be in the moment, and change the mentality of miles. We dive deep into the reasons why, and the feelings that arise when changing a hiking style. 

We chat as chickens interrupt us, we chat about her off trail life, we chat about her progression to more on trail life, we chat about crushing miles, we chat about consciously choosing to relax into the miles and journey, we chat way too much about alligators, we chat about Bradwell Bay, and we share and swap stories and just have a great time being wonderfully lost within hiker chat. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Bopit, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"See what there is to see, do what there is to do."

"This makes me happy and the best version of myself."

"Wow, you sound like my mom right now!"

To learn more about Bopit and get involved check out the link below:

Instagram: @Bopit_Adventures

YouTube: Bopit Adventures

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Mar 22, 202201:14:13
Who is Chief Shoeless?

Who is Chief Shoeless?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Chief Shoeless!

Today we dive deep into the world of barefoot hiking and barefoot living. We chat with Chief Shoeless and if you haven't caught the hint from his name, he is one of the few people that chose to hike long distance trails barefoot. Not only that but live his daily life barefoot. We get hyperfocused on this subject, because well, quite simply it is fascinating!

We learn about what it means to wear shoes for less than 1% of daily life. Whether that is going to the bank, going to the gym, going shopping Chief Shoeless remains... shoeless. Of course being respectful to businesses and shops where they still would prefer shoes, he has learned to navigate his way around this life without any. Not only navigate through life but enjoy it because of the fact he is shoeless.

We walk through the progression of his entry into this world. We talk about the freedom and closeness being barefoot can provide to the Earth as well as himself. 

We chat about how it connects him deeper into every moment. Feeling the connection with the ground that starts at his feet, and from this connection being present and aware throughout his entire body and mind.

We chat about marathons, we chat about meeting his wife in the middle of the Indian Ocean, we chat about walking barefoot through swamps, we chat about mental health, we chat about many of the emotions and feelings of living a life barefoot! 

Truly a wonderful chat with Chief Shoeless, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"It's priceless to me to be able to pass on to them what I have learned"

"Let me see the world in the navy, when I retire I can see the country"

To learn more about Chief Shoeless and get involved check out the link below:

Instagram & Facebook: @Chief_Shoeless

To support mental health:


To support hikers that support the Florida Trail: 



To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Mar 15, 202201:11:30
Who is Mike Crowley?

Who is Mike Crowley?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Mike Crowley!

Today we dive deep into the journey not once, but twice across America. Mike Crowley first walked the width of America from San Diego to Delaware. Walking out his front door he created the route that would connect him into the American Discovery Trail and bring him to the Atlantic Ocean. We chat the mentality behind such a long endeavor, and the thoughts and feelings around this being his first multi-month long hike. 

We chat about the calling he heard to seek adventure, and how it took him a few years until the call became too loud to ignore. 

We chat about the feelings of walking alone through massive open landscapes, the journey across America, and then the moment, where he stands complete at the Atlantic Ocean and all he hears is silence. 

We chat about his planning for his next trek across America, this time the length, from Isle Royale in Upper Michigan, down to the southern most point in Key West, Florida. We chat about "chance" encounters and how the trail has incredible ways of connecting people. 

We chat family, pack weights increasing not decreasing, lack of water, knocking on farm house doors, contemplating life, and much more!

Truly a wonderful chat with Mike Crowley, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us.


"Being the bubble that is carried by the wind is comfort to me"

"Being in your skin, your thoughts, the quiet, the fear melts away"

"Don't think about what is ahead, don't think about what is behind, just be in the moment."

To learn more about Mike Crowley and get involved check out the link below:

Website: ILikeMike

YouTube: ILikeMike

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Mar 08, 202201:23:13
Who is Mac (Halfway Anywhere)?

Who is Mac (Halfway Anywhere)?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Mac from Halfway Anywhere!

Today we begin the show by getting completely enthralled and enveloped in river stories. What do you do when a rapid becomes a Class 9 (we also learn that the Grand Canyon has a special rating scale of 1-10), what do you do if your boat flips in rapids, when are you supposed to wear what the cool kids call a PFD? 

We talk with Mac about his most recent Grand Canyon rafting trip. As his "adventure roots" come from backpacking we learn how he is beginning to branch out into bike packing, rafting, and adventuring in his own unique way. 

We dive deep into the responsibilities along with the freedom of combining your work and your play. We learn about his progression into working and running his website, Halfway Anywhere, full-time and how it is a constant game of catch up. When you work for yourself, the task is never done, because you are always creating more tasks. We learn about how the feeling of having enough work for multiple employees can be a blessing, but also a curse, when the work is a creation of your own tone, voice and feelings. It cannot be work that is spread out, instead all the responsibility once again singularly lands in your very own lap. We dive deep into the mentality of work and play. 

We learn about the sacrifices needed to live a life of adventure. Every life has sacrifice, no matter what it is, and we learn what Mac has had to let go of to grow. 

We chat scuba diving, Australia and Tasmania, trail feelings, overseas adventures, using a whiteboard for Pictionary, and much more!

Truly a wonderful chat with Mac from Halfway Anywhere, thanks again for sharing some of your story with us. 


"A smile will get you a really long way in a lot of places"

Today I walked ten miles, swam in a lake, and ate a bunch of M & Ms... today was the best day ever!"

"It's easy until it's not."

To learn more about the Mac from Halfway Anywhere and get involved check out the link below:

Website: HalfwayAnywhere

Instragram: @HalfwayAnywhere

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Mar 01, 202201:07:56
Who is Tarptent?

Who is Tarptent?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Henry Shires!

Henry Shires is the owner and founder of TarpTent. 

TarpTent is a company that has been in the backpacking world before the ultralight craze, before the backpacking craze, before apps, it began. Born from his 1999 PCT Thru Hike the legend began. Henry sewed together a tent for himself to use on his hike, and once he finished people began to ask him to make the tent for them. 

This began the journey of Tarptent. As he stated it was never planned but picked up momentum on its own, and then steamrolled forward into becoming his life. He said the turning point was in 2003 or 2004 when Backpacker picked up the story, and at that point he had a decision to make. Continue to pursue his career in Physics or take the leap fully into owning and running a backpacking company. He chose the later, and we unpack the feelings of the why behind such a choice. On one hand there was security and on the other the giant unknown lay ahead, and he jumped right into the unknown! 

We chat about the challenges of hiking back in 1999, the growth of the outdoor industry, the loss of the PCT kick-off and the role social media now plays in his world. We chat tents, more tents, and many tent philosophies and jargons that would make a lot of sense for gear aficionados but had our mind boggling with the intricacies.

We chat about the term "Cottage Gear" and what this entails. The definition of Cottage Gear is defined without being defined. There seems to be a communal agreement on what a Cottage Gear company is, but no standard definition. We curiously pick Henry's brain to see what his thoughts are on this subject. When does a company get to big to be a Cottage Gear company? Can it get too big, if part of the definition is the values of a company, and if the values stay the same, why does the size matter? Is it units sold, production partners, morals, what defines it? There is so much grey area here that we didn't possibly hope to answer the question, but wanted to satiate our curiosity with a company that has been, is and continues to be born from this term. 

We chat passion and love for the outdoors, we chat about his wife and business partner Cynthia, we chat about growth personally and professionally, we chat about what makes a life in the outdoors uniquely TarpTent.

We also chat about drones! 


"My being is there because my creation is there"

"I don't know where this is going to go... today is the day I am just going to do it."

To learn more about the Mac from Halfway Anywhere and get involved check out the link below:

Website: TarpTent

Instagram, Facebook, YouTube: @TarpTent

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Feb 22, 202201:04:31
Who is Strider?

Who is Strider?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Luke Jordan or Strider!

Today we sit down to chat with Strider. We unpack many of the feelings and thoughts that went into his 2013 North Country Trail Thru-Hike. Not only was he one of the first people to accomplish such a feat, but more amazingly it was his very first long distance hike. No acclimation for him tackling a 2,000 mile, 2,650 mile, or 3,000 mile trail. No Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, or Continental Divide Trail would act as his introduction into the backpacking world. Instead tackling the massive 4,800+ mile North Country Trail would be his first!

We chat about how he was able to wrap his head around such a massive endeavor. The support from friends and family that helped fuel his fire. The internal drive to continue ahead even through hoards of mosquitoes. The one and only time he thought of "quitting" and how a chat with a fellow hiker, a warm meal, and an internal resolve to continue to live his dream propelled him forward. 

We chat about the Great Plains Trail. 2022 will be it's 10 year anniversary. We unpack what it was like to help navigate and route a long trail. We compare and contrast it to other trails, which as you know at this point is never easy! We talk about trail magic on a "lesser known" trail. We chat about the beauty of Nebraska, South Dakota, and North Dakota and how the great plains are anything but plain. 

We chat about his current career with the National Park Service and how he works hand in hand with NCTA, the very trail that was his first thru-hike. We chat about the emotions of missing trail while still so actively involved in the everyday of trail. We chat about community and the three sides of volunteer, hiker, and employee and how the heart of everyone is the same, is Strider. 

We wrap up the show learning about 423 National Park Sites, and ask Strider the burning question of, with all his routing skills learned over the years when is he going to create a thru-hike connecting all of them?

Truly a wonderful chat with Strider, thank you for sharing part of your story with all of us! 


"As long as all my positive and mediocre experiences outweigh the bad ones, I think that is a good solid life."

"I am going to do whatever I can to make this happen"

"When you reach the end point, what is your purpose?"

To learn more about the Strider and get involved check out the link below:

Facebook: StriderNCT

Book: Through and Back Again


To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Feb 15, 202201:25:50
Who is The American Perimeter Trail?

Who is The American Perimeter Trail?

We have the privilege of speaking with Rue and Leliah from the American Perimeter Trail!

Today we begin the show be diving into the steps around creating a long distance trail as well as how to spread awareness when travelling through communities that rarely if ever see backpackers. We unpack stories of being detained, and while it may sound scary, how unfortunately it can become a necessity when trying to introduce the concept of hiking, backpacking, and long distance travel into communities where as Rue stated it, "curiosity can either lead to love or to fear." 

We dive deep, incredibly deep, into the amount of isolation that Rue had to experience while he was out routing the trail through 2020 and 2021. Due to the pandemic coupled with the route being new, this lead to extreme cases of isolation. Where his only human contact was picking up a resupply box at a Post Office every one to two weeks as well as his daily check in with Leliah when cell service allowed. We hear both sides of this experience from Rue and Leliah. We unpack how it is an amazing privilege to be the person of support, but also an incredible responsibility. Leliah says it best when she says, "The APT doesn't exist without you, we need you to take care of you."

 We dive incredibly deep on this subject, because while it is heavy material, it is extremely powerful to learn the mindset, see the growth, and experience the thought through these moments. 

We chat about Rue's progression as a hiker and after his completion of The Triple Crown (Appalachian Trail, Pacific Crest Trail, Continental Divide Trail) years ago, how he stood in New Mexico feeling... well feeling empty, with the thought of "what am I doing here?" We learn how the American Perimeter Trail became his art, his connection, his community, his meaning, his family.

We also talk about Texas. Yes, Texas. Where huge percentages of the land is privately owned and the struggles of routing a trail through there. As Rue described it Texas became his freestyling routing, which means, each day he did not yet know where he would sleep, instead having to navigate and define the route in the moment. Many times asking individual land owners for permissions to cross the land. 

We wrap up the show as well as these notes with a disclaimer. There is confusion within the hiking community as to what the actual APT route is, understandably so due to its massive length at 12,000+ miles. What we can say from our chat, and how we can most accurately state it is, the trail is ever growing. The current maps on their website are not "gospel." Rue went out these past few years to route, and now is in the process of compiling, creating, and puzzle piecing in together the "completed" route. Yet, with a trail of this size, each year there will be changes, land will switch hands, routes will change. The APT is still growing, has just begun, it will continue to change. Current maps are "scouting route" not finalized route. 


"The trail is my teacher, the greatest privilege and education of my life"

"This is my family"

"Maybe I could beat being a human"

To learn more about the American Perimeter Trail check out the links below:

Website: American Perimeter Trail 

Instagram, Facebook, YouTube: @AmericanPerimeterTrail

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Feb 08, 202201:27:04
Who is the North Country Trail?

Who is the North Country Trail?

We have the privilege of speaking with the three members of the North Country Trail Association!

Kate Lemon - Marketing and Communications Coordinator

Valerie Bader - Director of Trail Operations

Matthew Davis - Regional Trail Coordinator (North Dakota, Minnesota and Wisconsin)

Today we have a very special episode for all of you as we sit down and chat with three of the members that help create, maintain and grow the North Country Trail which is America's longest National Scenic Trail.

We cover a broad range of topics such as funding for the NCT, the Chapters of the NCT which manage and maintain their local trails, the volunteers that make this trail possible, and what each of these people do on a day to day basis.

We learn that every day is different but the message and theme remains the same, growth of community, growth of accessibility, and spreading their love and passion of a wonderful trail. Valerie said it best, when she said "the other duties of our job description is where we spend 90% of our time." We learn about these other duties and the people that make a thru-hike, a section hike, a day hike, a few miles hike, possible on the North Country Trail.

We chat about land management, community relationships, and community involvement which all are an integral piece of the puzzle that creates a National Scenic Trail.

We chat about the Hike 100 Challenge, a wonderful initiative by the NCTA to increase the accessibility for anyone and everyone who whishes to experience the trail in their own unique way. We chat about the new Events Calendar, that will now make it easier to find, plan, and participate in all things North Country Trail.

Simply, we learn a lot about the workings behind the the physical trail itself, and learn about the wonderful people that makes it their everyday goal to continue to create and spread the love of what it means to be a part of the North Country Trail. 


Kate: "The North Country Trail is for everyone"

Valerie: "Very little barrier to entry... you need a pair of shoes and the initiative to get yourself out there!"

Matthew: "For me the NCT is a community...that we are all working together to build a legacy"

Thank you Kate, Val, and Matt for sharing with all of us a piece of what it takes to make such a wonderful trail possible! 

Get out there, get involved, become a part of the community! 

To learn more about the North Country Trail and get involved check out the link below:


To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated!

Feb 01, 202201:22:26
Who is Shotgun?

Who is Shotgun?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Shotgun!

We could not help ourselves with this one, the passion, happiness, and joy from Shotgun was contagious, and we were thrown fully into hiker chat. This Off Trail episode is going to focus quite heavily On Trail, and it is absolute glorious!

We chat about Shotgun's quick progression into hiking, and hiking hard. Finding a competitive spirit against herself to test and push her capabilities everyday. Beginning hiking a few years ago, she has already traveled and hiked many of the trails hikers have on their bucket list. The smaller, "lesser known" trails. 

We talk of the upcoming year, chasing 6,000+ miles. Experiencing one of the Big 3 trails of hiking, The Continental Divide Trail, and how it is going to be different while being the same. We get jealous as she talks of her itinerary, as her personality bubbles with energy for every part of this upcoming hiking season.

We chat about the benefits and joy shared when hiking with a partner. The "games" that you play with each other to have a laugh, go an extra mile, enjoy the trail fully. 

Truly a wonderful chat with Shotgun, feeling the authenticity and essence of love for the trail and love for hiking. 

P:S: We work through a spark of an idea, instead of the 24hr challenge hiking, the 24hr challenge talking with hikers. It would be an absolute circus! Should we, could we, shall we? 

FAVORITE QUOTES: "This is not a hobby, this is a lifestyle"

"It went from 0 to 100 and has no intentions of slowing down"

To learn more about Shotgun check out the link below:

Instagram @nikolekulio

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Don't forget to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts if you are enjoying the show! All weirdness not only welcome but appreciated! 

Jan 25, 202201:12:52
Who is Nancy East?
Jan 21, 202201:04:53
Who is Lil Buddha?

Who is Lil Buddha?

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Lil Buddha!

A unique episode as we have a special guest on the show with a special guest as our co-host. Legend returns as we co-host the show to ask Lil Buddha the hard hitting questions. 

Such as, why do you not filter your water? Who is actually better at tennis? When will you start advertising by shaving company brands into dog's fur? What was his mom's base weight?

The questions that we all wonder! 

Honestly, it was a very fun episode, filled with humor, but also deep conversation. We learn about Lil Buddha's incredible journey through the jungles of Thailand, we learn about not "wanting" to make hiking anything more than actually just walking but finding a purpose and responsibility to help spread awareness for AAPI, and we learn about how Lil Buddha began his journey into year after year life on trail.

Not one to tout miles or consider them important, he is now close to 50,000 miles hiked, an incredible feat for the stats, but as we all know the importance is in the moments and life within, not the miles. 

Absolutely an amazing show, as we left it mostly unedited so you can feel the joy and laughs shared between 3 hikers as we all share in this wonderfully weird life we have found.

Thank you Lil Buddha and Legend, it was truly a joy!

FAVORITE QUOTES: "We all drink water at some point we are going to have to use the restroom" (in reference to mile accumulation)

"Buddha Filter - piece of mesh taped to a Gatorade cap"

"If my mom can cross the jungle in Laos and the Mekong River, I can get up this ridge"

"I dabble in thru-hiking"

To learn more about Lil Buddha check out the link below:

Instagram: @lilbuddhahikes

To learn more about Legend check out the links below:


Instagram: @thefreeoutside

To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Jan 20, 202201:12:47
Who is Wow?
Jan 19, 202201:03:50
Who is Lady Unicorn?
Jan 18, 202201:00:11
Who is Her Odyssey?

Who is Her Odyssey?

We have the privilege of speaking with the two and only, Fidget and Neon, also known as Bethany Hughes and Lauren Reed!

Two absolutely amazing woman who are on an epic journey. Hiking, biking, kayaking, using human power to connect their travels the length of the Americas. Yes you heard that correctly, not just America, but the Americas, the entirety of South America, Central America, and North America. An epic journey they are on which they call Her Odyssey.

Beginning this journey 5+ years ago, it is possible by the end of 2022, that they will complete their odyssey. By connecting all of their human powered travels together.

We were lucky enough to catch up with them while they were in Mexico a few days before they resume their epic quest. With 15,000 miles underneath their proverbial and literal hip-belts, they have but 5,000 miles left! 

Yet, those are just the stats, and as you know here at Off Trail, we dive quickly past the "stats page" to learn what make these adventurers unique, special, individually human. 

We talk of connection, we talk of the definition inside of "thru-hike" and how it has both pros and cons, we look into what it means to tackle a multi-year odyssey and the relationships, thoughts, and planning that goes into such a quest.

We learn about what it means to truly live their motto of "a human powered journey connecting the land and its inhabitants." We learn what happens when as their website states: "the heart of the journey is connection."

We cannot thank Fidget and Neon, and Her Odyssey enough for taking the time in their very very busy schedule to connect with us!

FAVORITE QUOTES: "Humans will fill any space we have to capacity"

"An invitation to work towards being your best self" 

To learn more about Fidget and Neon and Her Odyssey check out the links below:


Instagram: @herodyssey


To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Jan 17, 202201:12:58
Who is "Allgood" & Six Moon Designs

Who is "Allgood" & Six Moon Designs

We have the privilege of speaking with the one and only, Whitney LaRuffa or "Allgood"!

This episode takes our "classic" format and adds in a special twist. This is our first inaugural episode where we chat with a hiker and outdoorsperson but also with a member of a outdoor company. 

Whitney is the VP of Sales and Marketing at Six Moon Designs, an ultralight backpacking company, built around the love of the outdoors.

We wanted to hear and share the two different sides to each question, as we ask him personally, and then also as a representative of Six Moon Designs.

With this episode, and hopefully many more to come, we hope to shine light upon the companies that support the hiking community. The companies that create the gear that we all use in the outdoors. Without sponsorship, without not saying a name because it would be "product placement" but instead proudly and openly mentioning these companies, without any monetary exchange. 

Instead purely, because we want to show that it is okay to not only mention company names but also shine light on them because they make the backpacking world a better place. They give back to the outdoors, they create, they are involved in capacities we as individuals cannot be.

Six Moon Designs was a company born by a hiker, molded on the trail, and grown by the love. Creating affordable tents and gear they hope to help generate an easier and more affordable outdoors for everyone.

Truly a pleasure to speak with Whitney, who as we also learn in this episode is quite an inspirational and amazing guy in his own respect. 

FAVORITE QUOTES: "Hugs from the inside out"

To learn more about Six Moon Designs check out the links below:



Instagram: @sixmoondesigns


To learn more about who we are click the link below:


Jan 11, 202201:12:22
Who is "Horsepower?"
Jan 04, 202201:06:48
Who is "Dosu Kinuta?"

Who is "Dosu Kinuta?"

Jan 01, 202201:16:38
Who is "Dine N Dash?"
Dec 28, 202101:10:07
Who are "Gutterspike & LayzerGoat?"
Dec 28, 202101:05:06
Who is "Legend?"
Dec 22, 202101:14:21
Who is Bart Smith
Dec 18, 202101:16:05
Who is "Dirtbag"?
Dec 11, 202101:13:32
Who is "Nimblewill Nomad"?
Dec 11, 202101:25:01
Who is "Apple-Pie"?
Dec 11, 202101:14:51
Who is "Buck-30"?
Dec 11, 202101:29:43
Off Trail Pilot: Who Are We?

Off Trail Pilot: Who Are We?

The first episode of our new podcast! 

Off Trail, the only podcast that asks the questions that continue to spin in a hiker's mind, questions for hikers, by hikers. 

With shared experience of 12 years and close to 40,000 miles combined between our two co-hosts, we hope to share the knowledge and information learned over the years of living life on trail, and off. 

With interviews unlike any other show, we ask the questions that shine light upon, not what hikers do, but how they do it. Not how they physically hike day after day, but instead how they use their time "off-trail" to be able to live a life "on-trail."

Constantine, or Ryan Bunting, is the show's founder and creator and will be joined by his partner Magpie, or Dana Burkett when scheduling allows. 

Well, that's it, we hope you enjoy hearing how hikers, backpackers, climbers, ultra-runners, anyone that lives within the outdoor community continues to make their dreams a reality. 

Email us with any questions, comments, feedbacks or suggestions at:

Dec 11, 202101:21:02