The Scuba Diving Podcast

Undervaluing the enormous amount of time, experience, equipment, prep, and patience it takes to teach scuba courses is killing the dive industry, and the customers and recreational divers out there get hit the hardest.

Mike and Kenny get to the very core of the dive industry’s lack of growth, when compared with similar industries. Further, this same root cause is why so few people keep diving after they get scuba certified. 

This cycle creates burnout on the Instructors and Divemasters, and sets up students to fail at their ultimate original goal: Confidence to be a scuba diver (aka the lifestyle). While many may still "catch the bug" in a basic discounted course, most either have to find additional training/guidance or simply never go diving again. This is mainly due to rushed courses, and lack of personal attention.

The “2 year burnout cycle" of the scuba instructor is caused by not charging what they’re worth, getting overworked with too many students, dive shops not not having the time to form lasting bonds, and ultimately not nurturing divers into this incredible world. 

Increased value increases value… for EVERYONE. 

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Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice. He’s an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida and Hawaii, water safety at Sea World and Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He coaches kids sports on his spare time, and is a father of three.

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Kenny Dyal is the host of The Scuba Diving Podcast:

Morgan Oughton quit her job in NYC, and became a Divemaster and Instructor for the Aggressor Fleet, one of the busiest & most famous diving liveaboard charters in the world. "Mo" fell in love with diving, and during journey found a way to fuse her passion of diving, outer space, artwork and design into something useful for all of us: Spacefish Army. Diving needed to break free of the same-old "bland and boring", and Morgan literally made that happen. Not only did she inject life into scuba diving wear, she brought practicality to it. She knows what it takes to work as a dive professional in the most demanding setting (liveaboard dive charters!) From sneaky pockets to sunblocky, eco-friendly pieces, Mo and her wildly friendly team have you COVERED, head to toe.

Melissa drops by and asks Kenny questions about handling kids in the scuba certification class. Where does the line of supervision begin and end between parents and instructors? How do you take a scuba class WITH your kids? It’s all there. Plus, Kenny explains the parallels between kids and spouses taking scuba lessons together. With summer around the corner, this is the timeliest podcast in the world  for all you parents out there!

Melissa Lea Hughes has been featured on television shows, and has hundreds of thousands of followers for mom and family inspired content. She’s a social media coach, a published author of “She Can Laugh”, a Podcast host, and above all, posts DAILY tools for moms, parents, and ways to cope with life, children, and staying happy.

Mark Gibello talks with Kenny Dyal about creating a scuba equipment business over 20 years ago, and why he absolutely loves it. His energy and enthusiasm only seem to grow with time, which are on full display throughout this full-throttle interview. Come behind-the-scenes at XS Scuba, going from inception to being in nearly every dive shop, aquarium, charter and facility today. Mark also lets us in on the future of his company, his secret to success, and why he never wants to retire.

Alexis Jabbour speaks with Kenny about the brand new “Buddy App” rolling out for scuba divers and freedivers. 

This is FINALLY an app that works for all agencies (PADI, NAUI, SSI, SDI, BSAC, CMAS, etc), but also allows you to connect your money accounts for tipping and bookings, verifies your certifications or professional memberships, let’s you share your gear, and of course has all the other fun dive log stuff (literally everything). 

It has the ability to friend and chat with other divers directly on the platform as well. It’s clean, works smoothly, easy to use, and looks to be the most promising diver app yet. It was enough to prompt an impromptu interview after someone flagged down Kenny to show him the app right on the tradeshow floor.

BONUS: It also has a business interface for diving professionals, rolling out around the time of this episode publishing.

*This actual interview took place at DEMA, in November 2022. Since then, Kenny has been in regular contact with Alexis on the development of the Buddy App, and is an avid user. 

Rayna O’Nan is a world-renown shark diving guide, scuba instructor and Marine Biologist.  She explains why she loves taking people diving with some of her favorite sharks. In fact, Rayna was instrumental in creating one of the first “celebrity sharks” that divers can see up close in the wild: “Snooty” the Lemon Shark!

We also dive right into the hotly-debated topic of using bait to attract sharks, the effects it may have on behavior modification, and why this is actually saving sharks. 

We cover it all: How to do the dive, what conditions are required, why she loves it, and of course… is it safe for divers?

This is one of the most content-packed interviews ever done in one spot. We had just got off the boat and spent the day on two distinct shark dives led by Rayna: Lemon sharks AND full-grown BULL sharks! We loved every minute of it, and all of these videos were taken directly from that trip (minus the Publix footage, of course!)

NOTE: Our second dive (shown in much of this video) was STRICTLY BULL SHARKS, for a total of 6 full-grown females. After being given proper instruction and precautions, they were absolutely fantastic to dive with!

The different ways DAN will help your own doctor with diving contraindications for getting clearance to dive is also mind blowing. Odds are, you’ll want to add them to your phone’s favorites right away.

For any diver that values their own safety, or the safety of others, this interview is prescribed to you.

Cristina directly analyzes the practice of lionfish feeding, and other types of shark feeding for shark tourism.

This is a must for anyone who questions the practice of shark diving with food in the water, with an extremely insightful anecdote laden with relatable analogies.

This is Part 2 of the complete Cristina Zenato interview with Kenny Dyal. Be sure to watch or listen to Part 1 which dives into shark behavior, opinions on aquariums, and how she stays so energized, accomplished and positive in daily life.

Follow or learn more about the incredible works of Cristina Zenato here:

An icon of positivity, Cristina Zenato gets charmingly candid with her anecdotes for aquariums, sharks, conservation, and life in general. From mapping underwater cave systems to removing hooks from sharks’ mouths, Cristina is a champion of conservation and motivation. She also discusses her stance on whether aquariums are good or bad, while diving into the issue of animals in captivity.

She talks about her famous sharks, how she gets to know them, and keys to understanding shark behavior.

Stay tuned for the immediate follow-up interview, specifically discussing her analysis of shark tourism and shark diving.

Follow or learn more about the incredible works of Cristina Zenato here:

Whether you believe the swim tests should be stringent, are a waste of precious bottom time, can scare an otherwise good diver out of the rest of the class, or are a crucial evaluation point to move forward, you’ll love this chat between two experience instructors.

Michael Kest and Kenny Dyal talk about the swim test requirements for Open Water Scuba Certification, and debate the relevance it has in training new scuba divers. The ISO 24801-2 Open Water Scuba Diver standards and how they apply to agencies like NAUI, PADI, SSI, SDI etc., are also explained.

They further explain why scuba diving must be taught by real people in an actual setting, and why classroom teaching of skills is generally fruitless.

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Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice. He’s an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida and Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He's also a father of three.

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Kenny Dyal is the host of The Scuba Diving Podcast:

Returning for Season 2, Captain Michael Nastasio takes us out on his charter boat and yup… he put us right on top of the famous “Black Gold” which is shark teeth slang for “Megs” which is (yet another) shark tooth hunter buzzword for Megalodon Teeth.

Capt. Michael lives and breathes this every single day the weather lets him, and so far has never returned to shore without a MEG.

He explains the tricks to finding more, common mistakes, and even daily battles with fraudsters and “site pirates” that try to steal his secret locations!

This was just an incredibly fun day for our crew, with the interview at the end being a cherry on top. This interview is a MUST for any fossil diver or shark tooth enthusiast.

He runs private daily charters out of Venice, FL called “Black Gold Fossil Charters”.

Michael Kest and Kenny Dyal talk about the stigma, perceptions, and thrill out there of diving deeper. They share common conversations found amongst the dive world about depth, and even a bizarrely ill-advised business practice regarding Nitrox on a dive boat.

NOTE: This is merely a conversation about “Recreational Diving”, but does not get into “Tech Diving” limits which go well beyond Recreational depths discussed.

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice. He’s an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida and Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He's also a father of three.

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Kenny Dyal is the host of The Scuba Diving Podcast:

With her large online following (especially on TikTok LIVE) she educates AND entertains anyone with a love and interesting in sharks.

Emily goes into detail how sharks are caught off the beach by line, tagged, measured, and released (plus the issue of removing old hooks from their mouths). We talk about everything from her upcoming Inked Magazine Cover Girl competition, to whether or not Megalodons still exist.

This super fun interview was done right on the beach in Venice, FL, the “shark tooth capital of the world”. 

*The day after the interview, Emily actually found her first Megalodon tooth!

You can VOTE FOR EMILY here (starting Feb 6th):

Shawn has been diving since 1986, teaches private and small group lessons with his company “Trident Scuba” and takes people hunting shark’s teeth.

You can follow Shawn here:

Finally, Madalen directly answers the big question in the room: Does coral reef restoration really work and will it actually help?

Video credits:

The vast majority of this (truly amazing) footage was kindly provided by Alexander Neufeld of Coral Restoration Foundation. VERY BIG thank you!

Alexander Neufeld (All coral nursery footage, including in-action nursery boat & working shots, water entries and exits)

Sweetwater Scuba b-roll includes the following clips:

In-person podcast interview, aerial drone of land/Key Largo area, Katie Reich dancing underwater (buoyancy control), toting flag over reefs in West Palm area, underwater basketball shot, grabbing buoy, Spiegel Grove, pool training, Blue Heron Bridge reefs (Robin Powdrill waiving) and Keys land shots (dog driving, shop with giant lobster)

Mermaid footage of “The Alchemist” of Seattle Mermaid School by Kenny Dyal

Contacts:

Mike describes a situation that really happened when he was working a boat as a Divemaster. Not only did another diver nearly drown well beyond 100 feet deep, but the simple cause might surprise you. Mike walks us through the dive start-to-finish, plus we discuss and pinpoint where things went wrong leading up to the near-death situation. A lesson we can all take with us to make our diving that much better and safer.

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice, an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida to Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He's also a father of three.

Kenny Dyal is the host of The Scuba Diving Podcast.

Rebecca Ziegler (Becca) explains what it's like out there in the dating world for scuba divers. Not only does she share an actual exchange with a non-certified diver (that dives), but also how she learned to dive with her dad when she was young. 

Becca is a professional diver with experience ranging from leading West Coast USA shore diving, commercial diving, to working as a Divemaster for a boat and at an aquarium that brings Guests underwater.

Anyone getting their children certified, trying to certify a spouse, or taking classes with all-of-the-above should definitely keep this podcast handy!

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Kenny Dyal is the host of the Scuba Diving Podcast

If you've ever wondered how divers make the Reef Smart guides (the plastic cards that show wrecks, reefs, dive sites, etc.), CEO Peter McDougall tells us how it's done. They make the books, giant slates that are used by many dive charters and Divemasters on famous dive sites, and they even make 3D models, soon to offer something new to resorts, their Guests, and famous dive locations around the world. These dive guides show pictures of dive sites, species, currents, and even the best places to start and finish the dive.

Lots of diving, lots of technology, and lots of research go into these, and Peter brings the energy and enthusiasm you'd expect from someone who literally loves what they do for a living. 

Website: https://reefsmartguides.com

Guest Peter Mcdougall is the CEO of Reef Smart USA, and has physically contributed to mapping and diving many of these sites.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reef.smart/

Kenny Dyal is the host of the Scuba Diving Podcast

FACT: Deaf scuba divers have a superpower underwater with sign language. The ability to freely communicate in full conversation not only makes them proficient divers, but faster learners. Thomas Koch of Aqua Hands explains how learning is accelerated in the scuba certification course, buoyancy control comes quicker, and other benefits of sign language. Thomas teaches open water scuba courses up through instructor, and was the first ever deaf PADI Course Director in history. He is a PADI Ambassador, and regularly leads scuba classes and trips around the world, and is based out of the Tampa / Clearwater, FL area.

Aqua Hands website, including how to take deaf scuba lessons can be found here:

Sheriff Dive Team Forensic Diver Tommy Keisler opens up about his passion for metal detecting, history, artifacts, and diving in less than desirable locations. Tommy has been featured several times by news and local museums for historical finds, including a lost WW2 plane wreck that was located using sonar in the St. John's River (Northeast Florida). Another notable find was a George Washington inaugural button found in a very odd location. Tommy also discusses handling alligators, snakes, bull sharks, scittowacs and even unexpected entrapments (such as fishing lines and caves). Finally, he talks tips and tricks to underwater metal detecting, legal considerations and how to get started.

Kenny Dyal is the host of the Scuba Diving Podcast

Kenny and Mike talk about the "little things" . In almost every case of scuba related accidents, incidents or any other issues, the big things are usually caused by the little things that slowly built up to a disaster. Mike talks about a big scare he had with a scuba instructor that almost drowned, and what led up to the event. They talk about other common issues and situations that accumulate and lead to larger problems.

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice, an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida to Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He's also a father of three.

Kenny Dyal is the host of the Scuba Diving Podcast

Kenny and Mike have a conversation on the early impression of the Apple Watch Ultra. This perspective is through the lens of dive professionals using current computer watches, and how Apple's dive computer app might be received by the diving world. This is the first of probably a handful of breakdowns, as things will absolutely change with the final rollout of the Oceanic App. They'll also revisit the watch when other future technologies (hopefully) spawn down the road.

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice, an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida to Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He's also a father of three.

Kenny Dyal is the host of the Scuba Diving Podcast

Kenny and Mike grab lunch at a local taco shop to discuss scuba diving fins. We take a deep dive into the Atomic Split fins vs Mares, Scubapro Seawing Nova, and Jet Fins, with real word testing, use, and objective discussion. The actual, real, correct answer comes in at the very end.

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice, an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida to Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world. He's also a father of three.

Kenny Dyal and Michael Kest discuss & debate checkout dive locations for new scuba diver certifications. Should offshore boat dives be mandated or maybe even be a separate certification?  Should the certification focus more on getting comfortable instead of where it is (aka, not romanticizing the location). 

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice, an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working dive boats in South Florida to Hawaii, water safety at Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest, working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world and father of three.

Kenny Dyal interviews Daniel Cox, who recently purchased Fantasy Lake Rock Quarry near Raleigh, North Carolina.  As the new owners, Daniel and his family are working hard to renovate and transform the rock quarry into a scuba diving paradise. This lake has a wild assortment of underwater attractions like sunken airplanes, a bus, platforms for training, freaky doll heads, cars, an old rock crusher, boats, and LOADS of fish, including large bass and even Koi. Most of the attractions are at such a shallow depth, divers can spend an extremely long time on the bottom and see the majority of the highlights on 1 to 2 tanks.  Depths can reach nearly 90' at the deepest part, but nearly all of the attractions are shallower than 30'. Temps and viz are posted on their website daily. You'll love to hear all the future expansions and improvements Daniel has planned to happen really soon.  Available here and all major podcast platforms.  Fantasy Lake's official website: https://www.gofantasylake.comEmail:  info@gofantasylake.com Phone:  (919) 556-1803 Address:  3601 Quarry Road Wake Forest, NC 27587  

Interview & Video by Kenny Dyal

Underwater Talent: Katie Reich

Kenny Dyal and Michael Kest debate and discuss the relevance of dive buddies. Red flags when doing a first dive with someone, ways to navigate around a not-so-ideal dive buddy, and where to draw the line. The topic of whether or not a dive buddy can actually help is also discussed in depth. 

Michael Kest is a jury trial attorney with his own practice, an active dive instructor with experience that ranges from working on boats in South Florida to Hawaii, Sea World, Disney's Dive Quest and working for dive shops and teaching classes all over the world, and father of three.

Chad Barbay discusses where the dive industry is today, and where it's going.  We how to rejuvenate and energize the next generation of divers and dive professionals to see a new phase of rapid growth, in an otherwise stagnated industry.

Currently, Chad is a Manufacturer Rep for some of the most prestigious and well-known equipment lines, and has a long-standing career in Scuba Training Agency representation.

Whether it's in training or equipment, Chad shares the secret to success in the dive business, and firmly believes anyone can have it with just a few core principles.

Legendary in the dive industry, Chad Barbay trains retailers and trainers how to EASILY succeed with some very simple processes and concepts.

Current Manufacturer Representative for some of the most prestigious and well-known equipment lines, and a long-standing career in Scuba Training Agency representation.  

Whether it's in training or equipment, Chad shares the secret to success in the dive business, and firmly believes anyone can have it with just a few core principles.

Olive is a pioneer in the Mermaid world, from professional character roles with Walt Disney World Entertainment, to Olympic-level water training, and even earning the title of Miss Mermaid Washington 2021.  And as a qualified member of the World Mermaid Association, Olive the Alchemist manages to perfectly infuse both the physical and fantasy worlds into a delightful new reality.

We discuss what motivates people to join the Merfolk community, how to get started, what goes into training, and also how welcoming, inclusive, and inspiring this world truly is.  

For anyone wishing to become the best Mermaid, Merman, or Merperson version of themselves, look no further than one of my all time favorite interviews with The Alchemist!

Located in the oldest port in the US, and also its oldest city, Chuck heads the Lighthouse Archaeological Maritime Program out of Saint Augustine, FL. It is located at the iconic Saint Augustine Lighthouse on Anastasia Island. He discusses everything from working with the team, what they've discovered, and what gets him most excited to get back out there.

A super unique interview from his own balcony just blocks from the Lighthouse, the location was everything you'd imagine from someone who lives on the coast, and spends time raising history from the ocean floor! This was one of the most fun interviews I've had the privilege of hosting.