
The Counter Narrative: Changing the Way We Talk (and think) About Education
By Charles Williams

The Counter Narrative: Changing the Way We Talk (and think) About EducationJun 12, 2021

Episode 158: Pause to Ponder - A Fresh Perspective
Nearly a year ago I announced that I was transitioning not only to a new school but to a new grade level. After spending nearly a decade leading schools at the elementary level, I opted to accept an invitation to become a high school administrator. This episode offers an insight into five fresh perspectives that I was able to achieve by shifting roles and stepping out of my comfort zone.

Episode 157: Interview w/ Sawsan Jaber
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Episode 156: Pause to Ponder - Dear Teachers
Teacher appreciation week is traditionally a time dedicated to honoring the teachers in our lives and those impacting not only their fields but also the communities in which they serve. This episode is an open letter to those educators who need a word of encouragement, of inspiration, of gratitude. Thank you for all that you do.

Episode 155: Interview w/ Maxwell Roach
In this episode, I chat with Maxwell Roach, the Founder of JonAyves Learning Club, a forward-thinking tutoring service that teaches children concepts such as long division as early as the age of 3. Max has traveled a diverse career trajectory, spanning the child care, music, food, technology, and education sectors. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Toronto and is certified as a Professional in Human Resources (PHRi). This has opened doors to an eclectic and wide range of opportunities, including performing as a musician, sharing stages with Beyoncé and the Rolling Stones, leading a multi-centre child care organization as CEO, and working as an Operations Director and Consultant for e-commerce tech companies globally. Maxwell is a serial entrepreneur who values the need to "fill the industry gaps" by way of disruption and modern solutions.
During our conversation, we explored several topics including how the term tutor often has a negative connotation and that shifting semantics to personalized learning instructor adequately captures the work of this role. In fact, Maxwell points out that algorithms exist to personalize experiences across most social media platforms and we should investigate replicating similar experiences within our classrooms. We talked about the seemingly ironic push for increased SEL in our classroom noting that teachers are often not adequately prepared or trained to handle these sensitive mental health approaches resulting in increased stress which we attempt to address with … you guessed it … SEL approaches. We closed out the discussion with the proposition that education shouldn’t be about competition but instead should be focused on collaboration. How do we lower our defense mechanisms and develop solutions in a system that is often unfair and punishes deviations from the norm?
Ready to hear more from this dynamic educator? Let’s go!
Website - https://www.jonayves.com
Books - https://www.jonayves.com/shop
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/@JonAyvesLearningClub
Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/@JonAyvesTV
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/AJsHouseKids
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/JonAyvesTV
Linked In - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellroach
Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@AJsHouseKidsY
outube - https://www.youtube.com/@JonAyvesTV
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@AJsHouseKids
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@JonAyvesTV

Episode 154: Pause to Ponder - The Hedonic Treadmill
When was the last time that you allowed yourself to experience joy? When was the last time you truly celebrated an accomplishment? If you are struggling to recall that moment, you are not alone. We have been primed to consistently pursue whatever we define as success without acknowledging that this pursuit is futile in that success is a series of small wins that may never truly end. Thus our efforts to obtain this goal will only result in the production of additional milestones hence the term "hedonic treadmill."
Recognizing the toll that this takes on our mental health, I wanted to share that this is something with which I struggle and implore listeners to find ways to both pursue their goals while also being intention about stepping off the treadmill to enjoy that which they have accomplished.

Episode 153: Interview w/ CJ " Real Rap" Reynolds
In this episode, I chat with CJ Reynolds, a West Philadelphia high school literature teacher, author, YouTuber, & public speaker. In his book, Teach Your Class Off, on his YouTube Channel, Real Rap With Reynolds, and on his Podcast, Sunday Night Teacher Talk, Reynolds offers an authentic glimpse into what it looks like to teach high school in the inner city. Using “Real Rap” to share teaching tips and strategies, Reynolds helps new and veteran teachers alike become the teacher they always dreamed of being.
During our conversation, we talked about his usage of rap and hip hop in the classroom. Reynolds points out that this musical culture focuses on things that are “fresh” or relevant and that we, as educators, should mirror this in that we should not try to be cool but strive to be as relevant as possible. He explains that this is only possible by forming authentic relationships while also acknowledging that such practices feel dangerous because we need to be vulnerable and actually invest skin in the game.
Ready to hear more from one of the keynote speakers for this year’s Teach Better Conference? Let’s go!

Episode 152: Pause to Ponder - Dashboard Warning Lights
For most of us, the dashboard warning lights in our vehicles are an indicator that something needs to be addressed. For some, those signals are ignored often leading to larger issues as time progresses.
The same can be said for ourselves as well. Our bodies have warning signs to indicate that things are not going well and to serve as a reminder that we need to resolve them before we burn out.

Episode 151: Interview with Andre St. George
During our conversation, we talked about the role of leadership and Andre pointed out that we are all leaders in our own rights. It is necessary then for each of us to tap into our uniqueness and to identify our superpower. Andre points out that people are drawn to our energies and that their perceptions of us will depend greatly on how we see ourselves. To that end, he stresses that we must be the leader of ourselves before attempting to lead others.

Episode 150: Pause to Ponder - The '89 Land Run
On April 22, 1889, thousands of settlers, or Sooners, rushed into modern day Oklahoma in an attempt to settle "unassigned lands" and continue the European westward expansion of America. A moment that is commemorated across Oklahoma City, the '89 Land Run was foundational in the establishment of the state's eventual capitol and other major hubs. What is often not discussed, however, is how these "unassigned lands" came to be. Listen as I share my discoveries on the darker side of this momentous event and the Native American Nations that were ultimately decimated by this progression.

Episode 149: Interview with Sarah Said
In this episode, I chat with Sarah Said, an educator who has served in various roles including Teacher, Assistant Principal, Dean, Curriculum Coordinator, and Multilingual Coordinator. Sarah is an advocate for the students she serves and is a strong voice in education. She has been published in various publications such as Learning for Justice, EdWeek Teacher, The Teaching Channel and Edutopia
During our conversation, we talk about how Sarah got her groove back by examining her journey from classroom to administration and then back again. We focused on mental health and questioned how much we are truly doing despite talking a lot about the need for shifts in this area. We reflected on the often unnecessary burdens we carry with us and the impact that has not only on ourselves but those around us. Sarah also pointed out that we could benefit from shifting from our standardized approaches to Norway’s more fluid practices.
Ready to hear more? Let’s go!
Facebook - Sarah Dollah-Said
Twitter - @MrsSaid17
Instagram - @dollahsaid
Linked In - Sarah Dollah-Said

Episode 148: Pause to Ponder - All Brown All Around
In Sandra Cisneros' book, "House on Mango Street," there exists a passage that seemingly sticks out to most people who have read the text.
"Those who don’t know any better come into our neighborhood scared. They think we’re dangerous….All brown all around, we are safe. But watch us drive into a neighborhood of another color and our knees go shakity-shake and our car windows get rolled up tight and our eyes look straight. Yeah. That is how it goes and goes."

Episode 147 - Interview With Barbara Bray
In this episode, I chat with Barabara Bray, a coach, teacher, writer, disruptor, risk-taker, learning designer, connector, and visionary. She calls herself a creative learning strategist where others call her a “change-maker.” Her dream long ago was to create an online place for educators that was safe and secure with all the tools and resources in one place. She did it with My eCoach in 1999 — way before there was Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, or Pinterest. Barbara is what some call a “Digital Pioneer.” With her coaching background and an amazing team, they created coaching and mentoring strategies and processes that have been adopted in schools and districts in the U.S. and other countries. Barbara coined the phrase “Making Learning Personal” in 2000 and trademarked it in 2002. In 2004, she started her Rethinking Learning blog in My eCoach and in 2010, she moved her blog to barbarabray.net. In 2017 she launched the Rethinking Learning Podcast and published Define Your Why in 2020.
During our conversation, we explored the treatment of teachers and how it has impacted the field of education. From teacher recruitment to teacher retention, we discussed common practices and their effectiveness in improving our schools. Barbara talked about the often distanced school board members and recommended that they spend time in the schools for which they are making decisions. She shared how passion projects not only improved teacher and student investment but also provided a window into what is happening within our schools.
Ready to hear more from this educational guru? Let’s go!
Connect with Barbara
Host, Rethinking Learning Podcast Author, Define Your Why: Own your story so you can live and learn on purpose President/Owner, My eCoach Facebook (barbara.bray) Twitter (bbray27) Linked In (barbarabray)
Episode 146: Pause to Ponder - What is Equitable Grading
Equitable grading has come to mean plenty of things but the problem with most of the approaches is that they have become excuses used to enable our most at-risk students. Join me as I reflect on a disagreement that I continue to have with a colleague and request your input on this challenging conversation.

Episode 145: Interview with Rosalba Rodriguez
In this episode, I chat with Rosalba Rodriguez, an educator of 20 years as an instructional assistant, a substitute teacher, a teacher. She has served as an administrator for the past four years and is currently a Principal in southern California. Rosalba is a mother of two and an advocate for her daughters to be leaders and empathetic to others. As a leader, she believes all students can learn and belong to their school. Rosalba loves her role as a principal and is excited to continue her journey in leadership.
During our conversation, Rosalba presents a question that serves to define our leadership - what battles are you willing to fight and are you brave enough to stand firm? She explains how, in her new role, those who rode the bus were not only often from vastly different neighborhoods than the affluent community in which the school exists but also dropped off in the back of the school and required to traverse less than ideal terrain in order to enter the school. Why was this okay? She also stresses the need to hold all students accountable to the same level and differentiates between pity and promise.
Ready to hear more from this phenomenal leader? Let’s go!

Episode 144: Pause to Ponder - Should African-Americans (and others) be Offered ELL Programming?
We know that African-Americans have struggled historically when in our academic spaces and there is a maintained gap between them and all other racial groups. When discussing these disparities, we often talk about access and opportunity but what if there is something that we are missing in that conversation? This episode explores the possibility that this gap persists because many of our students, and not just African-Americans, exist within households and communities where the language needed to navigate academia is not commonly used and is, in many ways, foreign to them. What do you think?

Episode 143: Interview with Marcus Belin
In this episode, I chat with Marcus Belin, the Principal of Huntley High School, President of Illinois Principals Association, 2021 National Association of Secondary School Principals Digital Principal of the Year, and 2020 Illinois Principals Association Kishwaukee Region Principal of the Year. Marcus received his Bachelor’s and Masters from Bradley University and his Education Specialist (Ed.S.) and Doctor of Education (Ed.D.) in Educational Leadership from National Louis University. He is also the creator and host of the podcast Unapologetic Leadership which can be found across most platforms and on his website drmarcusbelin.com.
During our conversation, we discussed time. Yes, that’s right time. The fleeting resource that most of us wish we had more of so that we could accomplish all that we have to do. And yet this valuable resource is finite and thus we are forced to consider how we make the most of it. Marcus points out that our constant desire to “catch up” is a fallacy considering that we exist within an ever changing environment. Instead, he suggests that we examine our mission and vision to ensure that they are aligned with our actions so that we are moving in the right direction. Marcus also assures us that it is okay to set boundaries and give ourselves grace.
Ready to hear more? Let’s go.

Episode 142: Pause to Ponder - Black Mental Health
What happens when trauma goes unaddressed? What happens when a community is denied the opportunity to access adequate health care? What happens when individuals are convinced that engaging in discussions around mental health is a sign of weakness? Join me as I reflect on how these issues perpetuate ongoing trauma within our communities and will continue to do so until they are truly addressed and resolved.

Episode 141: Interview w/ Black, Brown, & Bilingue Podcast
In this episode, I chat with Lissette Jacobson and Maurice McDavid, the co-hosts of the Black, Brown, and Bilingue podcast, a show designed to unite the Black and Brown communities through education, storytelling, and community engagement. Both Lissette and Maurcie have over a decade of experience serving in education and both are currently principals in the suburbs of Chicago.
During our conversation, we focus on the intersectionality of language and identity. When was the last time you considered the relationship between the two and what did your assumptions or reactions say about your perceptions? For example, Lissette and Maurice talk about the “improper language” that is used in academia and yet is commonplace with those who use this same language to convey love, affection, and support. They point out that language which is acceptable in our educational system is often elitist and serves to create barriers among many of our marginalized populations despite great skillsets.
Ready to hear more from this dynamic duo? Let’s go … or should I say vamos.

Episode 140: Pause to Ponder - Love + Work
Inspired by Episode 405 from the SuperCreativity Podcast hosted by James Taylor, this episode briefly shares some insights into Marcus Buckingham's newest book "Love + Work" and presents a challenge to all listeners for the month of February (and hopefully beyond). Jump into this episode and be sure to check out Taylor's podcast and Buckingham's book.

Episode 139: Interview with Matthew Woods
In this episode, I chat with Matthew Woods, who has served for more than 12 years assisting students, educators, and schools in a variety of roles. His professional experience includes being a high school social studies teacher, a middle and high school assistant principal, a middle school principal, a director of student support services, an adjunct professor, and a field instructor for student-teachers. Additionally, Dr. Woods hosts an education podcast, Leading Out The Woods, author of the children's book series, I Wanna Be…, and is an accomplished keynote speaker and educational consultant.
During our conversation, Matthew talked about putting students first. This is something that we often say in education but we don’t necessarily reflect it in our actions. He points out that leaders who are loved by everyone may not always be telling people what they need to hear but rather what they want to hear. But does it benefit students? He shares that it's easy to be mediocre and not to stir up the waters too much. But does it benefit students? If we truly consider ourselves to be educators then we must always ask that question … does it benefit students?
Ready to hear some ways to ensure your practices are in alignment with benefiting students? Let’s go.

Episode 138: Pause to Ponder - 10 Things Every Child With Autism Wishes You Knew
Based on the best-selling book by Ellen Notbohm, this episode provides a frank discussion on the gap between what we say and what we do. Yes, we say (and honestly believe) that all students can and deserve to learn and yet, due to a myriad of reasons, we often fail to deliver on this. While our general education students who fit traditional models of learning excel, many groups of students struggle to keep up if not fall behind all together. Listen as I share the 10 things that every child with autism wishes you knew as I connect it back to my own experiences both as an educator and as a grandfather.

Episode 137: Interview with Jonathan Alsheimer
In this episode, I chat with Jonathan Alsheimer, the unorthodox, energetic, and entertaining middle school teacher who refuses to live a life of limitations and works with UFC Fighters, Celebrities, and Clothing Brands and he is the author of "Next Level Teaching”.
Jonathan, taught at the world-renowned Fred Lynn Middle School, which was featured in two documentaries "Relentless" and "Relentless: Chasing Accreditation.” He has been featured as the teacher who forged a partnership with UFC Fighter and light-weight contender Paul Felder to bring a message of never giving up, fighting for their education, and empowering the students to believe in themselves, all principles that Jonathan promotes in his classroom.
As Jonathan always says, "Game-changing is not a cliche motto; it is a way of life... some talk about it while others live by it!
During our conversation, Jonathan pushed back on what it means to be an effective teacher. He points out that so many teachers have been conditioned to teach to the test or focus on test scores that they have forgotten how to make teaching and learning fun. He shared that when he shifted his focus to students being engaged in authentic and relevant learning experiences that his scores not only improved but so did the students in his classroom. Jonathan suggests that teachers not overwhelm themselves by trying to revolutionize everything but by making steady, small shifts to take elements to the next level. That’s how he turned a geography assignment into a zombie apocalypse survival game.
Ready to hear some more about these game-changing ideas so you can start living them? Let’s go.

Episode 136: Pause to Ponder - Live 2023 PURPOSEfully
As long as I can remember, we have been following fads to accomplish most of our goals. The New Year is no exception. In fact, I once joked that my resolution would be to make no more resolutions and I am proud to say that I am still going strong. My concern is that most fads do not result in achievement of one's goals. Instead, they often serve as distractions and we often find ourselves further from our intended destination because of a commitment to something that is not aligned with what it is that we want to accomplish. This year, I am proposing something different.

Episode 135: 2022 Student Holiday Special
For the past two years, I have hosted a holiday special as we explore various holiday traditions celebrated by educators. This year, I wanted to get the voice of students on the show and what better way to teach upcoming podcasters by having them participate in a show! This episode features three students from Michele Clark. Enjoy!

Episode 134: Pause to Ponder - How Do We Heal Our Educators?
What systems exist to adequately provide our educators with the opportunity to heal in the light of a traumatic event? Join me as I reflect on how me and my team have been struggling to do this following the loss of a student steps from the front of our school.

Episode 133: Interview with Bethany Hill
In this episode, I chat with Bethany Hill, an educator for 24 years. She has taught grades kindergarten, first, second and third grades, has been an instructional coach, assistant principal, and principal. Bethany currently serves as a retention and recruitment specialist for an education service cooperative and supports novice teachers in 26 school districts. She also promotes social emotional learning through facilitating learning experiences centered around trauma sensitive practices and the implementation of working dogs in schools. She is the handler for an educational assistance dog who visits schools with her.
During our conversation, we focused on the misnomer that is the “teacher shortage.” Bethany pointed out that not only are there a large number of people transitioning into teaching but that there are also a large number of teachers who have chosen to work outside of their certification. The teachers, as individuals, didn’t disappear, but instead they have made a choice to stop working and we should be inquiring as to why. Bethany stresses that we should shift our focus from recruiting new talent to retaining those who are already in our buildings. How? Yes, money is one factor but there are also plenty of others.
Ready to hear some more on how we can get teachers back into their classrooms? Let’s go.

Trailer

Episode 132: Pause to Ponder - Crafty Conservatorships
What Britney Spears, Sarah Rector, and the Osage Nation all have in common? They were all deemed incapable of handling their finances and thus court appointed a white male to oversee it for them. While the results are mixed, there is a common thread that impacts not just the three named but instead signifies an ongoing injustice in which the U.S. Government continues to implement inequitable systems and policies in an effort to oppress and control groups and individuals who threaten the status quo.

Episode 131: Interview with Marlena Gross-Taylor
In this episode, I chat with Marlena Gross-Taylor, the founder of EduGladiators and a nationally recognized ed leader with a proven track record of improving educational and operational performance through vision, strategic planning, leadership, and team building. A Nashville transplant originally from southern Louisiana, Marlena’s educational experience spans several states allowing her to have served K-12 students in both rural and urban districts. She has been recognized as a middle school master teacher and innovative administrator at the elementary, middle, high school and district levels. Because of her sound knowledge of both elementary and secondary education, Marlena has broad-based experience creating and implementing dynamic interactive programs to attain district goals while leveraging her flexibility, resourcefulness, and organizational and interpersonal skills to foster learning through a positive, encouraging environment.
Marlena’s professional development expertise has national attention and she serves as an AMLE middle school expert. She has also leveraged her past experience in corporate management to also include corporate training and leadership coaching in her repertoire of consulting services focused on culture, engagement and increased productivity. Marlena is a seasoned presenter keynoting conferences and delivering dynamic professional development sessions.
As a proud Louisiana State University alumni, she is committed to excellence and believes all students can achieve.
During our conversation, we explored both code switching and assimilation, recognizing our own roles as parents who contributed greatly to teaching our children to fit into the dominant culture as opposed to defying standardized norms that so often do not accept our own definitions of fashion, style, and beauty. Marlena points out that we are not alone in this mishap because we, like so many others, were not taught our history and thus were primed to regurgitate the same messages that we consumed while growing up in diverse deficient communities. All is not lost however, as we explore potential solutions including becoming knowledgeable about our ethnic journeys and sharing that information with as many people as possible. We must make as much noise, if not more, if we too want to be heard.
Connect with Marlena
Twitter - EduGladiators

Episode 130: Pause to Ponder - Wakanda Worries
The #BlackPanther franchise has been a source of #inspiration for many fans of the #MCU. But what happens when a potentially damaging & divisive message is portrayed?

Episode 129: Interview with Connie Hamilton
In this episode, I chat with Connie Hamilton, who has served as a teacher, coach, principal, and central office leader. She continues to devote her time to supporting teachers and leaders to implement quality instructional methods through her collaboration with educational organizations and the numerous books she has written.
During our conversation, we explored allyship across difference through the lens of a white female. While I know that this may initially sound controversial, we wanted listeners to hear from someone who is traversing the challenging journey of self-discovery so that they can show up authentically as an ally. It is our hope that this understanding will not only encourage others to embark or continue on their own journeys but also provide helpful insight for others who are attempting to better understand the process. The truth is, we must all go through a version of self-exploration if we expect to be positioned to better align ourselves with those who are different from us. After all, as August Wilson once said, you’ve got to be right with yourself before you can be right with anyone else.
Ready to dive into this transparent and vulnerable episode? Let’s go.

Episode 128: Pause to Ponder - Lacoste ... Black or No?
Jean Lacoste was a French tennis player and business man who went by the nickname "The Crocodile" which ended up serving as the iconic logo on his clothing line. He was an accomplished tennis player having won several cups and was considered the number one player in the world in both 1926 and 1927. Lacoste even earned a bronze medal in the 1924 Olympics. Despite all of the accolades and public recognition, there exists a lingering mystery that still causes debates within some circles today.
Was Lacoste a Black man?
Join me as I share how this information came to my attention as well as the details I learned, and subsequent questions I developed, through my investigation into this tennis star's background.

Episode 127: Interview with TaRael Kee
In this episode, I chat with TaRael Kee, an Assistant Principal at Collinsville High School, a site-based trainer for the American School Counselor Association, and the Past-President of the Illinois School Counselor Association. He is the Founder of The Kee to Success YouTube Channel/Podcast and Successful Shopping Online Store. TaRael is also a published author. He was named the Collinsville School District e-Educator of the Year (2017), recognized by College Board in (2018), received the Lindenwood Alumni Spotlight (2019), and was awarded Illinois School Counselor of the Year (2021). TaRael graduated from Lindenwood University with a specialist degree in Educational Leadership in May of 2021.
During our conversation, we talked about the impact that politics have on education, including how shipping migrants across the country affects the educational institutions receiving a sudden influx of students despite already struggling with a lack of resources. TaRael reflects on the ongoing battle between moral arguments and practicality. Yes, as educators we know and want to do what is right but are we equipped to always deliver on that message? We touch on the ongoing departure of educators as they are being left alone to figure it out and more often than not figure themselves out of the field. But … TaRael also leaves us with some words of wisdom … or should I say Kees to Success … on how we can respond to these challenges.
Ready to hear more? Let’s go.

Episode 126: Pause to Ponder - Principal Appreciation 2022
Leadership can be lonely ... but only if you are doing it wrong. Join me in this reflection as I urge our educational leaders to use this time to build their networks so that they are not moving through this journey alone.

Episode 125: Interview with Starr Sackstein
In this episode, I chat with Starr Sackstein, a recovering perfectionist who is an assessment reforming enthusiast. Currently, she is the COO of Mastery Portfolio, an Edtech Startup committed to helping schools move to Standard-Based communication. Additionally, she works with teacher teams to engage students in the learning process, advocate for personal growth, and effectively use student data to drive instruction. Starr was a high school English and journalism teacher for 16 years, a lead Humanities learner for 2 years, a publisher and developmental editor, and social media manager. She is an author, blogger, and speaker committed to changing the way we do assessment nationally and globally. You can learn more about her work on her website MsSackstein.com and you can follow her on Twitter @MsSackstein. When Starr isn’t advocating for students and educators, she is a mom and partner looking for the next adventure.
During our conversation, we talked about … assessments. In fact, Starr pointed out that we cannot expect major risk-taking in high stakes situations. And this goes for both our staff and our students. Starr shared stories of how she developed spaces for students to serve as cocreators of the curriculum in her space and was then investigated when students came to her class but skipped others. She shares the idea that our modern approaches disrespects and dishonors the natural learning process and questions why it seems that the love for learning happens to begin diminishing around the same grade level when these high stakes assessments are implemented.
Ready to hear more about the role assessments could play in your classroom? Let’s go!

Episode 124: Pause to Ponder - It's All Relative
As parents, we all want to believe that our children are special, that they are unique, and that they are smart. But how would you respond if you were told that the level of your child's intelligence would be contingent upon those with whom your child went to school? That say, for example, your child would be considered gifted at one school because your child's academic abilities were beyond those of your child's peers but would qualify for special education services in another setting because those students were academically superior to yours? Understandably, most parents would celebrate the first scenario and contest the latter. Yet, this very thing is happening within our schools as we speak.
This episode shares a revelation that our family had when challenging my grandson's school and their push for him to be in a cluster program based an outdated IEP. Listen and let me know what you think.

Episode 123: Interview with John Whalen
In this episode, I chat with John Whalen, a leading Restorative Practices pioneer in both theory and application. He has trained thousands of teachers, staff, and students throughout the United States. He is an innovator in professional development and training. John has spoken at numerous national education conferences including ASCD Empower, ASCD Leadership Conference, the ESEA Conference, National Association of Community and Restorative Justice Conference, the Music City SEL Conference, and the Texas Association of Secondary School Principals Conference.
John is the author of the book Classroom Circles: A Toolkit for Building Relationships and Strengthening School Communities.
John currently brings his experience to his role as a principal at the Tioughnioga Riverside Academy, a 4th-8th grade building in Upstate New York. He spent 15 years in the classroom teaching both 2nd grade and 6th grade mathematics. He also spent over three years as a district Restorative Practices Coordinator leading implementation in over ten primary and secondary schools.
John resides in Conklin, NY, with his wife and two daughters.
During our conversation, John brings up a great point that often undermines the role and resulting impact of restorative practices in schools. Districts often focus on improving discipline issues when they should be focused on improving community connections and culture. In fact, he points out that the root of the word discipline is to learn and yet we do not spend enough time teaching how to get the results we want but instead hope that punishments will teach that lesson despite plenty of research that suggests otherwise. John stresses that restorative practices does not mean that we do not hold students accountable for their actions and the harm they have caused. He also stresses that this is a process … not a program … and thus the implementation and outcomes may look different from one building to the next. In the end, if we want change to happen, then we need to be willing to change.
Ready to dive into this episode? Let’s go!

Episode 122: Pause to Ponder - Where Have All the Folktales Gone?
Folktales are a central part of our educational systems ... especially in the early grades. However, these tales reflect the Eurocentric ideologies that drive these institutions causing a large part of our population to abandon and forget the stories rooted in their respective cultural pasts. What can we do to reverse this trend?

Episode 121: Interview with Shaun Woodly
In this episode, I chat with Shaun Woodly, a decorated K-12 teacher, university professor, and author whose deep passion and research have allowed him great success as an educator and entrepreneur. He is the architect behind the educator movement “Teach Hustle Inspire” and has written the best-selling book “MC Means Move the Class: How to Spark Engagement and Motivation in Urban and Culturally Diverse Classrooms”. In both education and life, Dr. Woodly believes in having fun! He educates with love, enthusiasm, motivation, and hustle!
During our conversation, we talked about the 2%. You know, the percentage of the teaching force that is composed of Black Males. We discussed the desire to force us into constrained positions such as disciplinarians and managers because we are not often considered as capable of being instructional leaders. We examined code switching and whether or not it should be necessary for our students in order to be accepted as “normal.” We differentiated between culturally relevant and culturally responsive. And, of course, we touched on music and explored Woodly’s parallel with his favorite medium and his role in the classroom and beyond.
Ready to slightly transform your groove? Let’s go.

Episode 120: Pause to Ponder - The Duality of Resiliency
Resiliency is often used to describe strong individuals ... those who push through the toughest of obstacles and emerge victorious. For many, it has become a badge that is worn with honor - a symbolic representation that they were able to overcome.
But what if resiliency isn't always necessary? What if, resiliency is the necessary byproduct of functioning in a dysfunctional world?
In this episode, I explore this concept as it relates to our students and their families and question whether or not the resiliency they demonstrate should be looked upon in inspiration or if it is an excuse used to justify the ongoing perpetration of oppressive and unjust systems.

Episode 119: 7 Mindshifts for Educational Leaders
In this episode I chat with three phenomenal guests. T.J. Vari, Connie Hamilton, and Joseph Jones have experience as building and district school leaders. They have authored or co-authored nine books, including their most recent publication with Corwin Press, 7 Mindshifts for School Leaders.
T.J. Vari is the Assistant Superintendent of Secondary Schools and District Operations in the Appoquinimink School District in Delaware. He’s also a co-author on 5 books for school leaders, including two Corwin books: Passionate Leadership and 7 Mindshifts for School Leaders. You can find his blogs, podcasts, and other work at theschoolhouse302.com.
Connie Hamilton served the field of education as a teacher, instructional coach, principal, and district leader. She is the author or co-author of four books including 7 Mindshifts for School Leaders published by Corwin Press. Find out more about Connie’s work at www.conniehamilton.net
Joseph Jones is the Superintendent of Schools in the New Castle County Vocational-Technical School District. He is the co-author on 5 books for school leaders, including two Corwin books: Passionate Leadership and 7 Mindshifts for School Leaders. Find out more about Joe’s work at theschoolhouse302.com
During our conversation, we discussed the reality that often is leading an organization - that we are firefighters. So often we are consumed with the day to day issues that we are unable to recognize and address the root causes that continue to feed into them. It is this reason that these amazing leaders identified 7 mindshifts to help us approach education from a different perspective. Using examples from businesses and organizations from various markets, they challenge leaders to shift their mindsets so that they can improve their outcomes.

Episode 118: Pause to Ponder - O say can you see...
America is many things and none of those things are mutually exclusive. Why then, do we often apply that same principal to those who respond differently to patriotic symbolism? In this episode, I explore some of the history behind our nation's anthem and why I struggle with supporting it considering the language it contains. Does that make me Un-American or less patriotic?

Episode 117: Interview with Dan Wolfe
In this episode, I chat with Dan Wolfe, an educational leader who has served in Pasco County, Florida for more than 20 years. During this time, he has held roles as a teacher, instructional coach and administrator. He is currently an Assistant Principal at Sunray Elementary. Dan was selected as Pasco County’s District Teacher of the Year in the 2011-2012 school year and he is a part of the district’s Social and Emotional Learning (SEL) Committee that recently established Pre-K through Grade 12 SEL standards.
For the past two years Dan has written a blog called Becoming The Change which focuses on a different quote each day and how we can best apply it towards becoming the change through our own moral compass and the five areas in SEL. He has recently channeled this passion for writing into a new book, “Becoming the Change - Five Essential Elements to Being Your Best Self.”
During his spare time Dan enjoys spending his time reading, listening to podcasts, and going to Disney with his wife and daughter.
During our conversation, we discuss the importance of SEL in education - something that was embraced during the pandemic but has seemingly fallen to the wayside as we once again become solely focused on academic outcomes. Dan stresses that these two aspects are not and should not be viewed as separate or even conflicting entities but rather as the interdependent components of our students’ success. We explore the idea that our systems avoid SEL because it is not easily quantifiable and when we are able to do so then the programs we design do not offer the flexibility to address the nuances. Dan even asks if SEL has the clout to draw advocates so that it is truly deemed important. Regardless, we encourage our listeners to continue building community around these practices so that we will see eventual shifts in our field.
Ready to hear more? Let’s go.
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Vote for my session, "The Problem with Color Blindness," to be included in SXSW EDU. Click here to vote.

Episode 116: More than Cliches?
Welcome to the Counter Narrative Podcast, a show designed to change the way we talk, and think, about education. By sharing stories of successes and triumphs, we aim to challenge the dominant narrative that often negatively portrays our disenfranchised populations.
I’m your host, Charles Williams. An urban educator for more than 15 years, a current school principal in Chicago, an educational consultant, an equity advocate, and the co-host of Inside The Principal’s Office.
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Vote for my session, "The Problem with Color Blindness," to be included in SXSW EDU. Click here to vote.
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We use some phrases in educational conversations so often that they have become almost cliche. Why they are still important to maximizing learning for our students, I fear that they have been reduced to little more than lip service. This is evident as those same conversations, while recognizing the need for such practices, also relies heavily on Discourse I conversation in which the students, their families, and even society is blamed for the lack of progress that we are making. My challenge to those who partake in such discussions is to consider shifting to Discourse II and examining the roles that we play in both the problems and the solutions. Using our recent Back 2 School Bash, I point out how we are attempting to actually move beyond conversation in order to support not just our students but their families and the surrounding community as well. I recognize that no approach will be fool proof but doing something is better than doing nothing.
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I want to thank you for listening to The Counter Narrative Podcast. If you like what you are hearing, please be sure to like, subscribe, and of course share it with friends and family. I’d also love to hear your thoughts about the show so please leave a comment or two as well.
I’m not sure what platform you’re using but the show can be found on Anchor, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and plenty of other platforms. If the show isn’t on your preferred site, let me know and I’ll be sure to get it up and running.
This podcast is also featured on SchoolRubric.com, where you can find educational articles, videos, and interviews with educators from around the globe.
Be sure to connect with me and other listeners by following the show on Twitter at @theCNpodcast and joining the show’s Facebook Group.

Episode 115: Interview with Vernon Wright
In this episode, I chat with Vernon Wright, an entrepreneur, speaker, life coach, consultant, and leader. He has over 18 years of experience in education working in large, urban school districts and has previously served in the roles of teacher, teacher leader, campus leadership team member, and district-level support.
Vernon has shared his experiences as a speaker numerous times over the years at the campus, district, regional, state levels, and beyond garnering acclaim and accolades from recognized industry leaders and colleagues. He has even impacted educators on a global scale with his message reaching people from afar in collaboration with Microsoft EDU and CUE Inc.
Vernon has brought his unique style and combination of insight, storytelling, experience, humor, authenticity, and epiphanies to audiences for years. He knows that real change begins when we first start with authenticity and altruism within ourselves and then commit to creating a vision for future impact.
Vernon has an established presence on Twitter and other social media (@TheWrightLeader across all platforms), and he unabashedly stands as a voice for the people with zero apologies (ZeroApologyZone.com). You can connect with Vernon’s previous speaking and podcast appearances at TheWrightSpeaker.com where you can get a first-hand look at his style. He is committed to a life of inspiring and elevating others. He does this with a relentless focus on informing minds and touching hearts around the globe.
During our conversation, Vernon inspires us with a number of gems so be ready to get your notebooks ready. If you’re in the car, listen, take some mental notes, and then come on back. For example, we discussed the importance of stepping outside of our comfort zones and sharing the knowledge, skills, and experiences that we have with our colleagues. While something may be common knowledge for you, it just could be someone else’s breakthrough. We jumped into leadership and the importance of inspiring your people. After all, how can we expect great results if they are not galvanized to do great things? We even touched on trauma and recognized that just because we may find ourselves broken, there is no need for us to remain so. See … lots of nuggets in this episode.
Ready to hear them in their entirety and get fired up by this amazing educational leader? Let’s go!

Episode 114: Pause to Ponder - Breaking Up Is Hard To Do
What happens when you are torn between leaving a company and serving your community? Listen as I share my decision to walk away after 10 years of working at the same company.

Episode 113: Interview with Jed Stefanowicz
In this episode, I chat with Jed Stefanowicz, a Digital Learning Coach in Walpole, Massachusetts who provides job-embedded professional development and instructional coaching for academic technology. Through conferences, workshops, and coaching, Jed aims to engage and build staff/student digital learning capacity, keeping the focus on practice over product. As a 25 year elementary educator, speaker, blogger, and current Massachusetts Teach Plus Policy Fellow, Jed shares his passion for effective tech integration to transform teaching and learning, creating engaging and equitable digital learning environments and experiences that activate, innovate, and motivate digital learning. He is the Author of Take AIM at Digital Learning: Activate, Innovate, Motivate.
Be sure to check out this MassCUE level 4 educator’s blog and his band, Little Jed and the Phat Daddies.
During our conversation, we addressed some of the myths that have surfaced in education during the pandemic. Will tech replace teaching? How much learning loss have students experienced? We acknowledge that educators are in the process of rediscovering a job that they once loved and the challenges surrounding that journey. To assist with that, Jed points out the need for building a culture that encourages the development of combustible classrooms … yes combustible. We even talk about not only thinking inside and outside of the proverbial box but how we can also rebuild and recycle it.
Ready to learn more from this tech guru who can solve a Rubik's cube? Let’s go!
Order his book Take AIM At Digital Learning
Read his blog

Episode 112: Pause to Ponder - Tell Your Story
What is your story? Have you shared it?
What is a lesson that you learned? Have you shared it?
What we often consider normal just may be someone else's breakthrough. It is our duty to put out this information so that we can continue improving our field.

Episode 111: Interview with Rabia Khokar
In this episode, I chat with Rabia Khokar, an elementary teacher in Toronto and an education and equity consultant at Rabia Teaches. She is also a PhD student at the Ontario Institute of Studies in Education. Her research interests include equitable education, curriculum, and children’s literature. Rabia is passionate about ensuring schools are inclusive spaces where all students with their multiple and intersectional identities are reflected, represented, included and seen through an asset based lens. She is the recepient of the Elementary Teacher’s Federation of Ontario’s 2021 Anti-Racist and Equity Activism Award and the 2022 Professional Learning and Curriculum Development Award. Rabia enjoys sharing her teaching and learning on her twitter platform @Rabia_Khokhar1 and her website www.rabiakhokhar.com.
During our conversation, we talk about the contrast between lived experiences and expected realities. Oftentimes we, especially marginalized populations, are forced to comply with preconceived notions of who we are and can face harsh backlash when we push back against those prejudices. Singular stories do not always capture the entirety of our existence and yet they continue to persist because of their presence within so much of the media that is consumed. What if, instead of relying on these portrayals of those who are different from us, we spent time building affinity across differences? What if we developed spaces not only to amplify our voices but those of others who are sharing similar experiences?
Ready to hear more from this powerful educator and influencer? Let’s go.

Episode 110: Pause to Ponder - The NY Yankees and Teacher Retention
Welcome to the Counter Narrative Podcast, a show designed to change the way we talk, and think, about education. By sharing stories of successes and triumphs, we aim to challenge the dominant narrative that often negatively portrays our disenfranchised populations.
I’m your host, Charles Williams. An urban educator for more than 15 years, a current school principal in Chicago, an educational consultant, an equity advocate, and the co-host of Inside The Principal’s Office.
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This episode is a pause to ponder segment. These biweekly sessions will allow me to share with you my personal thoughts and reflections on a wide spectrum of topics as they relate to education. It is my hope that you will be able to take something from these segments and apply it in a meaningful way as you continue to do amazing work. Remember, while we all have different roles, we all have a single job, educating our students.
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What do the New York Yankees and teacher retention have to do in common? Well, consider that in the past 25 years, 44% of the championship teams also fell into the top 3 salary spendings for their respective years. In fact, the average winning team had a payroll that was nearly one standard deviation higher than the average. And the Yankees? Well their five championships during the past 25 years can be attributed to having a payroll that was 2 standard deviations higher than the average.
What does this mean?
One of my favorite players, Anthony Rizzo, former first basemen for the Chicago Cubs, recently joined the Yankees and has not been quiet about his dissatisfaction with the teams reluctance to pay him or others what they were worth. In short, he said to invest in your people.
While I understand that MLB salary caps and educational funding are vastly different models, the point of this discussion still holds true. How is it possible that there are teachers who are making a liveable wage (or higher) while others are required to work additional jobs to survive? Furthermore, how can we expect the same level of performance from these same groups of teachers? Or even, what are we saying about how much we value their contributions to our organizations?
In short, if you value your people, you need to invest in your people. Yes, it may be costly up front, but the results speak for themselves.
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I want to thank you for listening to The Counter Narrative Podcast. If you like what you are hearing, please be sure to like, subscribe, and of course share it with friends and family. I’d also love to hear your thoughts about the show so please leave a comment or two as well.
I’m not sure what platform you’re using but the show can be found on Anchor, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and plenty of other platforms. If the show isn’t on your preferred site, let me know and I’ll be sure to get it up and running.
This podcast is also featured on SchoolRubric.com, where you can find educational articles, videos, and interviews with educators from around the globe.
Be sure to connect with me and other listeners by following the show on Twitter at @theCNpodcast and joining the show’s Facebook Group.

Episode 109: Interview with Zachary Korth
Welcome to the Counter Narrative Podcast, a show designed to change the way we talk, and think, about education. By sharing stories of successes and triumphs, we aim to challenge the dominant narrative that often negatively portrays our disenfranchised populations.
I’m your host, Charles Williams. An urban educator for more than 15 years, a current school principal in Chicago, an educational consultant, an equity advocate, and the co-host of Inside The Principal’s Office.
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In this episode, I chat with Zachary Korth, a second year Assistant Principal within Chicago Public Schools. He previously served as the Math Instructional Coach and College and Career Counselor within Austin ISD and a STEM Instructional Coach in Portland Public. With a wealth of experience in restorative practices and building a climate and culture of high expectations and energy, he ensures everyone gets what they n eed to be successful. Whenever interacting with Mr. Korth you know he will always listen, support, and, if needed, offer solutions.
In honor of Pride Month, we centered our conversation around the