Veterans of Culture Wars

Religion reporter and book author Jonathan Merritt joins the VCW to share his Evangelical story that includes the trauma of being outed in 2012. We also discuss the ethics of publicly outing people (who are harmful to the LGBTQ community), death anxiety from certain religious backgrounds, and his fascinating *newest* book "Learning to Speak God from Scratch". Buy the book here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/learning-to-speak-god-from-scratch-jonathan-merritt/1126434908#/ Connect with Jonathan Merritt: Website: https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/ Twitter: @jonathanmerritt Instagram: @jonathan_merritt Linktree: https://linktr.ee/JonathanMerritt Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

The VCW hall was honored to host author and journalist Katherine Stewart to talk about her religious background and how she fell down the rabbit hole of covering Christian Nationalism specifically through the religious right's attempts to radically alter or eliminate public education. She also talks about being trained in journalism craft by Wayne Barrett who covered Donald Trump for years but sadly died right before his inauguration. Connect with Katherine Stewart on Twitter: @kathsstewart Get a copy of Katherine Stewart's book right here:  https://katherinestewart.me/books/the-power-worshippers/ Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Every year, around this time, Jeffrey Overstreet joins us to talk about our favorite movies of the preceding year. This year we are very happy to have Sarah Welch-Larson joining the discussion as well. On part 2 of our Best Movies of 2022 mega-episode, we talk about our personal top 10 movies from 2022. Connect with Sarah Welch-Larson on Twitter:  @dodgyboffin Listen to Sarah Welch-Larson with co-host Kevin on the "Seeing and Believing" Podcast: https://christandpopculture.com/category/podcast/seeing-and-believing/ Buy Sarah Welch-Larson's book "Becoming Alien" right here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/becoming-alien-sarah-welch-larson/1138609607 Connect with Jeffrey Overstreet on Twitter: @overstweet Read Jeffrey Overstreet's Substack right here: https://substack.com/profile/8438708-jeffrey-overstreet Buy Jeffrey Overstreet's books including "Through a Screen Darkly" right here: https://www.publishersweekly.com/9780830743155 Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Every year, around this time, Jeffrey Overstreet joins us to talk about our favorite movies of the preceding year, the Oscar nominees, and so forth. This year we are very happy to have Sarah Welch-Larson joining the discussion as well. On part 1 of our Best Movies of 2022 mega-episode, we talk about the Academy Award nominees for Best Picture and some smaller, somewhat idiosyncratic films that didn't make our personal top 10 lists but we felt were notable and worth sharing. On the next episode, the 4 of us count down our individual top 10 lists and share our thoughts on all of them. Connect with Sarah Welch-Larson on Twitter:  @dodgyboffin Listen to Sarah Welch-Larson with co-host Kevin on the "Seeing and Believing" Podcast: https://christandpopculture.com/category/podcast/seeing-and-believing/ Buy Sarah Welch-Larson's book "Becoming Alien" right here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/becoming-alien-sarah-welch-larson/1138609607 Connect with Jeffrey Overstreet on Twitter: @overstweet Read Jeffrey Overstreet's Substack right here: https://substack.com/profile/8438708-jeffrey-overstreet Buy Jeffrey Overstreet's books including "Through a Screen Darkly" right here: https://www.publishersweekly.com/9780830743155 Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Podcast host and writer Amy Fritz joins us to talk about her Evangelical story and how her family moved from Minnesota to Tennessee as her husband Nathan took a job at Ramsey Solutions. She talks about how she came to realize that Ramsey Solutions was a toxic environment and that led her to thinking about untangling her faith from other unhealthy personalities, organizations and ideas. Follow Amy Fritz on Twitter: @amyfritz Listen to the Untangled Faith podcast right here: https://untangledfaithpodcast.com/ Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Professor and author Dr. David Dark joins the VCW hall to talk about his reframed and expanded new book "Life's Too Short to Pretend You're Not Religious".  We discuss the definition of "religious" vs "spiritual but not religious", Hollywood's portrayal of Christians and/or religious people, why to "love a person is to love a process" and also that love takes a neighborhood. Buy the book here: https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9781506481661/Lifes-Too-Short-to-Pretend-You-re-Not-Religious Connect with Dr. David Dark here: On Substack: https://daviddark.substack.com/ On Twitter:  @daviddark Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Dr. Matthew Taylor joins us to discuss his recent podcast series Charismatic Revival Fury, released through the Straight White American Jesus podcast.  We talk about central figures of the New Apostolic Reformation like C Peter Wagner and Che Ahn, the connection to the "signs and wonders" charismatic movement led by John Wimber, Matthew's concept of "prophetic memes", January 6th as a religious event, the increasingly intense and violent rhetoric of the spiritual warfare movement, and that time charismatics climbed Mount Everest to battle a powerful demon called The Queen of Heaven, and how that connects to January 6th. Connect with Dr. Matthew Taylor: Twitter: @taylormatthewd Website: https://icjs.org/people/matthew-d-taylor/ PDF of C Peter Wagner's "Confronting the Queen of Heaven": https://sbicconnect.fun/download/c-peter-wagner-confronting-the-queen-of-heaven-peter-wagner-pdf/ Documentary on Operation Ice Castle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3mcFlybs5w Alissa Wilkinson on Columbine, the Cassie Bernall myth, and evangelical martyrdom fantasies: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/4/20/15369442/columbine-anniversary-cassie-bernall-rachel-scott-martyrdom Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

We talk with Mitchell Kezin, director of the documentary Jingle Bell Rocks!, which is about primarily left-of-center Christmas music, and features interviews with Reverend Run of Run-DMC, John Waters, Wayne Coyne of the Flaming Lips, Low, and others. We talk about Christmas music as part of the rituals that people create to give extra meaning to this time of year, from putting on the music that you have to hear in order for it to really feel like Christmas, to making mixes and playlists to share with friends, something Mitchell has been doing since 1990. We also discuss Mariah Carey's failed attempt to have herself legally declared the Queen of Christmas. See the trailer for Jingle Bells Rocks! here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBL6SQuaA8E Buy the DVD or rent a stream directly from Mitchell here: https://mitchellsmerrymix.com/jinglebellrocks/ Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Film critic and author Alonso Duralde talks about Christmas movies, Hallmark Christmas movies, and that time Hallmark aired a commercial featuring a lesbian couple that caused so much chaos that a whole new network was created to make exclusive content for people who get the vapors at the idea of a Christmas movie featuring a same-sex (or interracial) couple.  Alonso's books: Have Yourself a Movie Little Christmas: https://bookshop.org/p/books/have-yourself-a-movie-little-christmas-alonso-duralde/16524873 I'll Be Home for Christmas Movies: The Deck the Hallmark Podcast's Guide to Your Holiday TV Obsession: https://bookshop.org/p/books/i-ll-be-home-for-christmas-movies-the-deck-the-hallmark-podcast-s-guide-to-your-holiday-tv-obsession-daniel-thompson/16201312?ean=9780762499359 Recommended links from Alonso:  William Bibbiani on A Christmas Story and other Jean Shepherd adaptations: https://twitter.com/williambibbiani/status/1582065123027349504?s=46&t=J1aGC-jQIvp6PJF2fiUQVw Blogger SleepyKittyPaw: https://twitter.com/SleepyKittyPaw or https://sleepykittypaws.tumblr.com/ Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Co-host of the podcast, Straight White American Jesus, Brad Onishi returns to the VCW hall to talk about his forthcoming book (January 6, 2023) "Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism- And What Comes Next".  While we are all seeing a rise in Christian Nationalism in our present political moment, Brad traces the history of how we got to this religious and political moment while examining his own roots being raised in southern California.  We discuss the Barry Goldwater campaign, the conspiracies of the John Birch Society, Richard Nixon and the merging of conservative Evangelism fully with right-wing populism during the Ronald Reagan presidency.  Over the course of this history we begin to see that, in the Trump-era, nothing really has changed that much. At the end, we also share some thoughts on the passing of Mimi Parker of Low, in light of our recent conversation with her husband Alan Sparhawk.  Pre-order the book Preparing for War right here:  https://www.broadleafbooks.com/store/product/9781506482163/Preparing-for-War Listen to Straight White American Jesus right here: https://straightwhiteamericanjesus.com/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

From Concordia University in Montreal, Dr. Andre Gagne joins the VCW hall to share his story with Evangelicalism which included being a pastor for 10 years. We define Christian Nationalism and discuss the growing movement in America.  Then we take a deeper dive into the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), the 7 Mountain Mandate, some of the personalities pushing these ideas and how this connects to our contemporary politics. Mentioned on the Pod: NPR's Terry Gross interviews C. Peter Wagner on the New Apostolic Reformation: https://www.npr.org/2011/10/03/140946482/apostolic-leader-weighs-religions-role-in-politics#:~:text=Transcript-,C.,of%20the%20New%20Apostolic%20Reformation. Representative Lauren Boebert says that church should direct the government:  https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3540071-boebert-says-she-is-tired-of-separation-between-church-and-state-the-church-is-supposed-to-direct-the-government/ Pennsylvania gubernatorial candidate, Doug Mastriano, promotes Christian Nationalism: https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/a-pennsylvania-lawmaker-and-the-resurgence-of-christian-nationalism -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Rapture and hellfire and influencers, oh my! Prepare to be terrified by the spookiest episode of the year. The shadowy figure behind the Christian Nightmares social media accounts joins us to talk about the things that traumatized him as an evangelical kid, and the things that scare, amuse, and confound him now about contemporary evangelical culture. We also talk a little about Mark Driscoll, who recently claimed that the real reason he quit Mars Hill rather than face any consequences for his actions is that the elders of the church were planning to falsely accuse him of adultery.  Follow Christian Nightmares on social media: Twitter: @ChristnNitemare Instagram: @christian_nightmares Tumblr: https://christiannightmares.tumblr.com Substack: https://christiannightmares.substack.com -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author, Podcaster, Communications Professor and interdenominational speaker Dr. Heather Thompson Day joins the VCW hall to share her story with Evangelicalism and talk about her new book (written with her husband Seth Day) "I'll See you Tomorrow".  Dr. Day discusses how lonely and disconnected our society is and how we can have meaningful friendships and relationships.  We also talk about radical forgiveness. Buy the book, "I'll See You Tomorrow", here:  https://www.heatherthompsonday.com/seeyoutomorrow Connect with Dr. Heather Thompson Day Website: https://www.heatherthompsonday.com/ Instagram: @heatherthompsonday Twitter:  @heathertday -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Matt Johnson, former Mars Hill elder and drummer in the "Christians in a band not Christian Band" bands Roadside Monument, Blenderhead, and Raft of Dead Monkeys talks with us about the pre-Mars Hill 1990s Seattle Christian punk community, centered around Calvary Chapel in the University District, where Damien Jurado, Dave Bazan and many others also attended. We talk about his time in those bands, particularly Roadside Monument, who recently played a reunion show at Furnace Fest. We also talk about his 17 years at Mars Hill, what it was like being on staff as it was imploding, and the lingering trauma of that experience. -Buy Matt Johnson's book "Getting Jesus Wrong" right here: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/getting-jesus-wrong-matt-johnson/1124724146 -Matt Johnson writes in Mockingbird while looking back at his experiences at Mars Hill Church and after: https://mbird.com/religion/17-years-at-mars-hill-life-after-disillusionment/ -Follow Roadside Monument on Instagram: @roadsidemonumentband -Read about and see a video of their 2017 Seattle reunion show: https://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2017/06/19/532960633/roadside-monument-15-years-and-2-700-miles-later-reunite-a-lost-seattle -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

In this special and occasionally heavy episode, we were honored to have Alan Sparhawk from the band Low visit the VCW hall to chat about his music, his religious journey with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and faith and hope. We discuss how faith and hope are different but play together, moments of transcendence, and the feeling of bumping into something holy. Knowing that Zach is a cancer survivor, Alan wanted to talk about the biggest thing happening in his life right now, as his wife and bandmate Mimi is currently undergoing treatment for ovarian cancer. We were so grateful for this conversation, and for Alan's openness and desire for authentic connection during a very difficult time, and hope you'll join us in sending love, positive thoughts, prayers, or whatever you see fit in support of Mimi. Low performances: The Murder of Crows live at Sacred Heart: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb6Rube7YUg Low performing "Murderer": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhJAR6UZsCk Twitter and Instagram: @lowtheband Label site: https://www.subpop.com/artists/low The band's site: https://www.chairkickers.com/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Trigger warning: In this episode, we discuss sexual abuse toward minors. Dr. Paul Hoard joins the VCW hall to discuss his journey with Evangelicalism and how Evangelicals have interacted with psychology. We chat about cheap forgiveness vs true forgiveness, Sigmund Freud and Jesus casting out demons. Connect with Dr. Paul Hoard on Twitter:  @Hoardpaul Website:  https://paul-hoard.clientsecure.me/ Articles regarding a professor who abused students at Grace College: https://julieroys.com/report-sex-abuse-claims-substantiated-founder-grace-college-music-dept/ https://www.christianpost.com/news/founder-of-grace-colleges-music-department-was-serial-predator.html Information on Nouthetic Counseling: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/two-sides-of-the-counseling-coin/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Podcaster and soon-to-be-author Tori Williams Douglass joins the VCW hall for a wide-ranging discussion of her own story of being homeschooled in a fundamentalist Christian environment and going to Northwest College. She traces her journey to becoming an anti-racist educator working with businesses, churches and other organizations. We talk in detail about Critical Race Theory, the rightwing freakout over a black mermaid, Phyllis Schlafly, body positivity and body neutrality. Finally, Tori gives us a sneak preview of her forthcoming book. Connect with Tori: On Twitter- @toriglass Instagram- @toriglass Listen to Tori's Podcasts: *White Homework- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/white-homework/id1481083774 *Go Home Bible, You're Drunk- https://www.irreverent.fm/show/go-home-bible-youre-drunk/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Note: Listening to this episode will not count toward your required chapel credits. Host of the Chapel Probation Podcast and soon-to-be author R. Scott Okamoto stops by the VCW hall to share his Evangelical story including his years teaching, deconstructing, and encountering racism at Azusa Pacific University, a school that claims to be "God First" since 1899.  We talk about Christian colleges and universities, prosperity gospel theology and if Christian colleges actually are a factor in some students deconstructing their faith once they enter the "real world". Connect with Scott on Twitter:  @rsokamoto Visit Scott's website:  rscottokamoto.com Listen to the Chapel Probation Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/chapel-probation/id1604103239 Listen to a Chapel speech by Scott at Azusa Pacific University back in the past (referenced during the show):  https://vimeo.com/95769927?fbclid=IwAR2mAZ9zs3ale4tZcls4V60jxUCBiTqJs5m-ewBdlw5OKnZymZuxibOgv4Y -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Grief coach, author, and founder of the Restorative Grief Project, Mandy Capehart joins the VCW hall as we talk all about grief in its many forms, including anticipatory and disenfranchised/ambiguous grief, grief guilt, grief brain, grief as a non-linear experience, why the "5 stages" aren't helpful for understanding grief, and how churches often fail to support grievers, particularly through spiritual bypassing and through terminating cliches. Finally, we talk about how people can be better "grief supporters" when people in our lives are dealing with unimaginable loss. Buy Mandy Capehart's book "Restorative Grief: Embracing Our Losses Without Losing Ourselves" right here: https://www.mandycapehart.com/book-restorative-grief/ Connect with Mandy Capehart on her website and various social media platforms: https://www.mandycapehart.com/ Listen to her podcasts: Uncomfortable Grace Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/uncomfortable-grace-podcast/id1541028115) Restorative Grief Podcast (https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/restorative-grief-with-mandy-capehart/id1583949156) -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Matt Zoller Seitz, Editor at Large of RogerEbert.com, joins the VCW hall to talk about "The Deadwood Bible: A Lie Agreed Upon", his new book on the HBO series Deadwood, as well as its fascinating and complex creator David Milch. We talk about grief, addiction, recovery, certainty, Terrence Malick, and Matt shares his changing thoughts on spirituality and faith while having experienced unimaginable loss. Toward the end, Matt talks a bit about encountering Wes Anderson at the beginning of his career, including being on set during the filming of Bottle Rocket. Buy "The Deadwood Bible" right here: https://mzs.press/Deadwood-Collection-c136338555 Connect with MZS on Twitter: @mattzollerseitz Read MZS's film reviews here: https://www.rogerebert.com/contributors/matt-zoller-seitz -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Buy VCW merch: https://www.etsy.com/shop/VCWHall Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Managing editor of Religion News Service and co-host of the award-winning podcast Saved By the City, Roxanne Stone joins the VCW to talk about her Evangelical story, how the last 5 years have affected her faith, the urban/rural divide in America including on faith issues, how she broke the news about Hillsong NYC Pastor Carl Lentz's resignation because of an affair, and her experience going from writing about religion at Christian publications to writing about it at a secular news outlet. Also, we talk a bit about the Seven Mountains Mandate, the New Apostolic Reformation, and the Passion translation of the Bible. Listen to Saved By the City with Roxy and Katelyn Beaty right here:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/saved-by-the-city/id1557930520 Connect with Roxanne Stone: Twitter:  @roxyleestone instagram:  @roxyleestone Religion News Service: https://religionnews.com/tag/roxanne-stone/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author George Azar joins the VCW hall to talk about "My Gay Church Days", his self-published memoir of converting to evangelicalism as a teenager, becoming a pastor and thinking of himself as "struggling with same-sex attraction", his experience at Exodus International (the most notorious gay conversion organization in the world before it disbanded in 2012), and eventual acceptance of himself as a gay man and exit from evangelicalism. Connect with George Azar: Twitter:  @mygaychurchdays Instagram:  @mygaychurchdays Website: (Where you can order the book) https://www.mygaychurchdays.com/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Our first international interview with guest Dr. Marcia Pally as we talk about her book "White Evangelicalism and Right Wing Populism: How Did We Get Here?". We discuss the duresses that white Evangelicals perceive themselves to be under, a history of how those perceived stressors and "us vs them" thinking inflames right wing populism. We also discuss how some Evangelicals at the end of the 1800s and beginning of the 1900s were socialists and/or supported more social programs. Toward the end, we talk briefly about her book on Leonard Cohen. Professor Pally teaches at New York University, at Fordham University and is an annual guest professor at Humboldt University’s Theology Faculty. In 2019-2020 she was a Fellow and The Center for Theological Inquiry, Princeton. Her research interests are culture, religion, and politics as well as the intersection of culture and language. She is the author of several books. Connect with Dr. Marcia Pally: Website:  https://marciapally.com/ Twitter:  @Marcia_Pally Dr. Pally's books mentioned on the podcast: -"White Evangelicals and Right-Wing Populism:  How Did We Get Here?"  Order here:  https://www.amazon.com/White-Evangelicals-Right-Wing-Populism-Routledge/dp/1032134828 -"From This Broken Hill I Sing To You: God, Sex, and Politics in the Work of Leonard Cohen"  Order here:  https://www.amazon.com/this-Broken-Hill-Sing-You/dp/0567694763/ -"The New Evangelicals: Expanding the Vision of the Common Good"  Order here: https://marciapally.com/2020/07/the-new-evangelicals-expanding-the-vision-of-the-common-good/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

From the popular leftist podcast "Know Your Enemy", Matt Sitman joins the VCW hall to share his story about being raised in fundamentalist Christianity and experiencing culture shock when he attended Grove City College while moving into an Evangelical culture.  He discusses being a part of the historic Falls Church in Virginia in 2006 when there was an ugly church split over the appointing of an openly gay bishop.  Moving from the conservative right to the left, he talks about how his faith has changed and remained constant while talking about the prospects for a religious left. Connect with Matt Sitman: Listen to "Know Your Enemy" podcast right here:  https://know-your-enemy-1682b684.simplecast.com/ Twitter: @MatthewSitman Mentioned on the podcast: -More on Matt Sitman's political and faith shifts via his personal story:  https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/leaving-conservatism-behind-blue-collar-republican-progressive -Matt Sitman writes about depression:  https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/leaving-conservatism-behind-blue-collar-republican-progressive -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Seattle Pacific University, an evangelical school affiliated with the Free Methodist Church since 1891, is in a fight over LGBTQIA+ inclusion and equality. This came to a head on May 23rd when the board rejected proposed changes supported by an overwhelming majority of students and faculty, following a threat of disassociation by the Free Methodist Church. Students have been organizing mass protests and exploring legal options ever since. On this episode, we speak with professor Christopher Hanson and graduating senior Cambria Judd Babbitt, who walk us through the events that led up to this, what's happened since, what the experience has been like for students and faculty, why this is bigger than just SPU, and where it's headed.  GoFundMe for the lawsuit against the SPU board for breach of fiduciary duty: https://gofund.me/0c0908b7  Stay updated on social media by following:  Instagram @engaygetheculture  Instagram @asspspu  Twitter @SPUisGay (AKA engaygetheculture)  To contact Chris, go to https://spu.edu/academics/school-of-education/faculty-staff-directory/hanson-christopher  Cambria is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/cambria-judd-babbitt-734b751b1/  Twitter: @vcwpod  Zach- @muzach  Dave- @Davejlester  Podcast music by Zach Malm  Logo by Zach Malm

From the podcast "You Have Permission", Dan Koch stops by the VCW hall to share his Evangelical story and talk about the Southern Baptist (Guidepost Solutions) Abuse report that was released a few weeks ago.  Also, we discuss spiritual abuse both defining the term and giving information on how to identify if this has happened to you. Connect with Dan Koch: You can listen to "You Have Permission" podcast hosted by Dan Koch right here:  https://www.dankochwords.com/yhp.html Twitter: @DanKoch Mentioned on the Podcast: -Russell Moore on the Southern Baptist sexual abuse scandal:  https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/may-web-only/southern-baptist-abuse-apocalypse-russell-moore.html -Peter Wehner on the damage done to Evangelical Christianity:  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/southern-baptist-convention-abuse-report/630173/ Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Dr. Kait Dugan returns to the VCW hall to talk about death, apocalypse and her expertise, Karl Barth.  She talks about getting her doctorate, how thinking a lot about death has helped her in life and Pauline views of the apocalypse.  Finally, as the managing director at the Center for Barth Studies at Princeton Theological Seminary, she discusses Karl Barth and his influence on Christianity including what Barth can teach us about resisting fascism. Connect with Dr. Kait Dugan: Visit the Center for Barth Studies website (Princeton Theological Seminary):  https://barth.ptsem.edu/ Follow Dr. Kait Dugan on Twitter:  @kaitdugan Get a copy of "The Finality of the Gospel: Karl Barth and the Tasks of Eschatology" (edited by Dr. Kait Dugan):  https://www.cokesbury.com/9789004509832-The-Finality-of-the-Gospel Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author Shannon TL Kearns returns to the VCW hall to discuss his new memoir, "In the Margins: A Transgender Man's Journey with Scripture" which is coming out August 9th, 2022.  We discuss Shannon's story and how his relationship with Scripture changed over time.  We chat about some of the Biblical accounts that have meant a lot to him as he transitioned and beyond. Pre-Order Shannon Kearns' memoir right here:  https://www.eerdmans.com/Products/7948/in-the-margins.aspx Connect with Shannon online: Twitter:  @shannontlkearns Website:  shannontlkearns.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Russia expert and trans activist Chrissy Stroop joins the VCW hall to discuss Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Putin's religious and ethno-nationalist mindset, the connections between the Kremlin and some on the American right and the various anti-trans state laws that are being proposed in red states around our country.  She also shares her Evangelical story. Connect with Chrissy: Twitter:  @C_stroop Website:  https://cstroop.com/ Mentioned on the pod: Portland June 4th meet-up: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/pdx-meetup-tickets-310758094827 Sam Thielman in Forever Wars on the Nashville Statement:  https://foreverwars.substack.com/p/at-war-with-the-pedophile-knowers?s=r Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

The return of author and professor Joel Heng Hartse to the VCW Hall! He talks about his new book Dancing About Architecture is a Reasonable Thing to Do, the process of writing about music, discussing Hillsong with a punk icon, and the joy of "fucking shit up for the Lord". Plus, Weezer. Get Joel's book Dancing About Architecture is a Reasonable Thing to Do here: https://wipfandstock.com/9781498293822/dancing-about-architecture-is-a-reasonable-thing-to-do/ Connect with Joel Heng Hartse: Twitter:  @joelhenghartse Website:  www.joelhenghartse.com Mentioned on the Pod: Bear Witness to Lil Markie Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaeJ60Zazvk -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

VCW listener Jon Smart joins us to discuss his Evangelical story including his time in YWAM.  Zach and Dave conducted an experiment when a guest had to postpone a returning appearance on our show.  We tweeted out an invitation for someone who has been listening to the show to come on and talk to us.  Our new friend, Jon Smart, answered that call. Follow Jon Smart on Twitter:  @tssbro -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Writer, film critic and professor Alissa Wilkinson joins the VCW pod to talk about her new book "Salty: Lessons on Eating, Drinking, and Living from Revolutionary Women"!  She shares her Evangelical story, discusses her jobs which include being a professor at King's College, a film critic at Vox and an author.  Finally, we talk about her favorite film from last year "Bergman Island", Ingmar Bergman, and the Columbine martyrdom fantasy that came out of the horrific late 90s school shooting. Pre-order Alissa's new book:  https://www.amazon.com/Salty-Lessons-Eating-Drinking-Revolutionary-ebook/dp/B0992WT625 Connect with Alissa: Twitter:  @alissamarie Website:  https://www.alissawilkinson.com/ Vox Film Reviews:   https://www.vox.com/authors/alissa-wilkinson Mentioned on the pod: "After Columbine, martyrdom became a powerful fantasy for Christian teenagers" - https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/4/20/15369442/columbine-anniversary-cassie-bernall-rachel-scott-martyrdom Trailer for Bergman Island:  https://www.vox.com/authors/alissa-wilkinson -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

No relation to Bill Nye the Science Guy, Kevin Nye joins the VCW podcast to talk about his new book "Grace Can Lead Us Home: A Christian Call to End Homelessness" (out on August 9th, 2022).  We discuss the causes of homelessness, the myths about people without homes, some solutions to this crisis in our society, safe injection sites and more.   Pre-order Kevin Nye's forthcoming book (out August 9th, 2022) by going here:  https://kevinmnye.com/grace-can-lead-us-home-book/ Follow Kevin Nye on Social Media: @kevinmnye1 (on Twitter and Instagram) Kevin's website:  www.kevinmnye.com Kevin on the film Nomadland: https://theophanyblog.com/2021/04/25/movies-about-homelessness-nomadland/ Mentioned on the Pod: -Many homeless people have jobs:  https://parade.com/643064/beckyhughes/working-homeless-population-grows-in-cities-across-the-u-s/ -Many wealthy liberals have blame in the homeless crisis:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNDgcjVGHIw -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Professor, writer, and podcaster (Straight White American Jesus) Bradley Onishi joins us to talk about White Christian Nationalism, Christofascism, purity culture and how those things relate to current events in Russia and Ukraine.   Follow Bradley on Twitter:  @bradleyonishi Listen to Bradley on Straight White American Jesus:  https://straightwhiteamericanjesus.com/ Mentioned on the pod:   Eric Metaxes portraying Putin as a strong leader: https://currentpub.com/2022/02/25/the-eric-metaxas-show-pushes-pro-putin-propaganda-his-show-is-little-more-than-an-outlet-to-promote-conspiracy-theories/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

From the Ravel podcast, fellow Seattle-ite Josh Lieuallen joins the VCW hall to talk about his Evangelical story, his work on the Ravel Podcast, and deconstructing/reconstructing faith. Check out the Ravel Podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ravel/id1528109104 Follow Josh Lieuallen on Twitter:  @joshlieuallen -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Co-host of the Thereafter podcast, Meghan Crozier visits the VCW hall to talk about her evangelical story, purity culture, purity culture 2.0, exvangelical CCM karaoke, and more. Mentioned on the pod: "The Djembe Thread" - https://twitter.com/thepursuinglife/status/1486759817565794307 Resources Meghan Crozier recommends on the topic of Purity Culture: Talk Purity to Me - https://www.instagram.com/talkpuritytome/?hl=en Erica Smith - https://www.instagram.com/ericasmith.sex.ed/?hl=en Meg Cowan - https://www.instagram.com/megccowan/?hl=en Dr. Tina Sellers - https://www.instagram.com/drtinashameless/?hl=en Jo Luehmann - https://www.instagram.com/joluehmann/?hl=en Brenda Marie Davies (God is Grey) - https://www.instagram.com/godisgrey/?hl=en Ms. Charlotte - https://twitter.com/charlotteirene8 QueerTheology.com (Brian and Shay) - https://www.queertheology.com/ The Snarky Gent - https://twitter.com/thesnarkygent Tyler Krumland - https://twitter.com/TylerKrumland Kevin Garcia - https://www.instagram.com/thekevingarcia/?hl=en Alicia T. Crosby - https://www.aliciatcrosby.com/about Books: Pure by Linda Kay Klein Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms by Matthias Roberts #churchtoo by Emily Joy Allison Sex, God, and the Conservative Church by Dr. Tina Sellers Shameless by Nadia Bolz Weber You Are Your Own by Jamie Lee Finch Love Him Well by Tyler Krumland On Her Knees: Memoir of a Prayerful Jezebel by Brenda Marie Davies Big Big Love Revised: A Sex and Relationships Guide for People of Size - Hanne Blank Sex For One: The Joy of Self Loving - Dr. Betty Dodson Come As You Are - The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life - Dr. Emily Nagoski Good Christian Sex: Why Chastity Isn’t The Only Option And Other Things The Bible Says About Sex - Bromleigh McCleneghan Damaged Goods: New Perspectives on Christian Purity - Dianna Anderson The Body Is Not An Apology: The Power of Radical Self-Love - Sonya Renee Taylor Exhibitionism For The Shy - Carol Queen Our Bodies, Ourselves - Boston Women’s Health Collective All About Love - bell hooks -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

For this episode, we took a break from talking about Evangelicalism.  Jeffrey Overstreet returns to the VCW hall to talk movies from 2021, which we all agreed was a diverse and eclectic year at the cinema, despite the year starting with theaters still closed. We talk about the Oscar nominees, our own personal top 10 films of the year, what he's been showing his students and what has resonated with them, some comedies in a year with very little comedy, and in keeping with Roger Ebert's axiom "the movies are a machine that generates empathy", some of the year's best empathy generators.  Find Jeffrey Overstreet's work: Twitter:  @Overstweet Listen to Jeffrey's podcast about "looking closer" at movies and art:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/looking-closer-with-jeffrey-overstreet/id1552957728 Buy Jeffrey's book on moviegoing and faith:  https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-8307-4315-5 Buy Jeffrey's fantasy book Auralia's Colors:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/125630/auralias-colors-by-jeffrey-overstreet/ Visit Jeffrey's website:  http://jeffreyoverstreet.lookingcloser.org/ Mentioned on the pod: Bullseye interview with Winston Duke about Nine Days:  https://www.npr.org/2022/01/06/1070976887/winston-duke Lauren Wilford on Licorice Pizza:  https://letterboxd.com/laurenwilf/film/licorice-pizza/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author and Podcaster Krispin Mayfield joined the VCW hall to discuss his new book "Attached to God: A Practical Guide to Deeper Spiritual Experience" (out on 2/22/2022 from Zondervan).  He writes (and talks on the show) about people being able to have a more secure attachment with God by recognizing their own styles based on Attachment Theory.  Krispin also talks about his Evangelical story and his time in a Christian hardcore band called Sanctified Viscosity. Get a copy of Krispin Mayfield's book by going to the website:  https://www.zondervan.com/p/attached-to-god/ Follow Krispin on Twitter:  @K_Mayfield Listen to Krispin and D.L. Mayfield on their podcast "The Prophetic Imagination Station":  https://www.propheticimaginationstation.com/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Jazz Robertson (co-host of Multiple Sources Podcast) joins the VCW hall for a wide ranging discussion about playing music in and outside of church, letting go of certainty, Alan Watts, Britney Spears' conservatorship, the problem of white supremacy in evangelicalism, and her 5 favorite drummers of all time. Listen to Multiple Sources Podcast:  https://www.multiplesourcespod.com/ Follow Jazz on Twitter:  @jazzrobertson Her website:  https://jazzrobertson.com/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author and speaker Danté Stewart joins the VCW hall to discuss his excellent new book "Shoutin in the Fire: An American Epistle" as well as his experiences in Evangelicalism being a black consultant including with The Gospel Coalition (TGC).  He describes the effects on him being in white spaces and the tension in his work of capturing the painful realities of the culture around him but also having hope in the here and now.  We recorded on the anniversary of James Baldwin's death (December 1, 1987) and Dante also reflects on the importance of Baldwin's work in his life. Buy Dante Stewart's book "Shoutin in the Fire: An American Epistle" by going here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/672938/shoutin-in-the-fire-by-dante-stewart/ Follow Dante Stewart on Twitter:  @stewartdantec Mentioned on the podcast: Dante Stewart on being a black consultant in white churches:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/13/black-pastor-white-churches/ Dante Stewart's article on Ahmaud Arbery in the New York Times:  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/24/opinion/ahmaud-arbery-verdict-justice.html -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Well there's Santa and Jack Frost and Krampus and Rudolph. Egg nog and stockings and tree lights and strudel. But do you recall Christmas werewolves, Christmas witches, the Catalonian pooping log, Ded Moroz, hallucinogenic reindeer pee, and the Icelandic Yule Lads? Benito Cereno does, and he's here to tell us all about them. All of them. Seriously, the man is an absolute encyclopedia of international Christmas folklore and traditions. If all you know about Christmas is Jesus and Santa, prepare to have your mind blown. We also talk a bit about Christmas ghost stories and left-of-center Christmas movie recommendations. Find Benito: Twitter:  @Benito_Cereno Listen to Benito's podcast Apocrypals:  https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/website Listen to Benito's other podcast Till The End:  https://ko-fi.com/friendstilltheend Benito's new Letterboxd list of Christmas folk horror films: https://letterboxd.com/benitocereno/list/a-folk-horror-christmas/ Benito's latest appearance on the Weird Christmas podcast: https://weirdchristmas.com/2021/11/14/podcast-christmas-witches-with-benito-cereno/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Ian Adams has worked at various game companies, on games such as State of Decay, and currently is at Wizards of the Coast (Magic: The Gathering, Dungeons and Dragons). He walks us through some of the notable history of Christian video games, with sidequests about our childhood exposure to Dungeons and Dragons, the rise of video game-based charity organizations, and his perspective on the proto-MAGA Gamergate movement as someone working in the industry at the time it occurred.  Follow Ian on Twitter: @ianwadams Charities Ian Mentions on the Pod: https://www.extra-life.org/ https://gamesdonequick.com/ https://www.directrelief.org/get-involved/gaming/ https://childsplaycharity.org/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

What do you believe happens after you die? What do you hope happens after you die? Dave Maher died. Well, sort of. Host of the "This is Your Afterlife" podcast and the subject of a memorable story on NPR's This American Life, comedian Dave Maher joins the VCW to talk about his near death experience and evolving thoughts about death, his Evangelical upbringing, and how his creative process has changed. Find Dave Maher: On his website:  https://www.thisisdavemaher.com/ On Twitter:  @ThisisDaveMaher On Instragram:  @ThisisDaveMaher Mentioned on the pod: Listen to "This is Your Afterlife" right here:  https://thisisyourafterlife.captivate.fm/ Listen to the "This American Life" episode featuring Dave Maher right here:  https://www.thisamericanlife.org/646/the-secret-of-my-death -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author Katelyn Beaty, former Christianity Today managing editor, current co-host of the Saved By the City podcast, and no relation to Warren "Two T's" Beatty, joins the podcast to talk about her time as the youngest and first female managing editor of Christianity Today, the state of religious journalism, evangelicalism and disinformation in a post-Trump (and potentially pre-Trump) world, and Mark "No T's" Driscoll. Plus, she gives us some details on her forthcoming book "Celebrities for Jesus". Visit Katelyn's website:  https://www.katelynbeaty.com/ Follow Katelyn on Twitter:  @katelynbeaty Mentioned on the Podcast: Katelyn's article on Qanon:  https://religionnews.com/2020/08/17/qanon-the-alternative-religion-thats-coming-to-your-church/ Katelyn's Washington Post piece after the November 2016 election:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/11/14/i-was-an-evangelical-magazine-editor-but-now-i-cant-defend-my-evangelical-community/ Listen to Katelyn Beaty and Roxanne Stone's podcast "Saved By the City":  https://religionnews.com/saved-by-the-city/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Welcome to our one year podcast anniversary! Spooky terror lies within! Sarah Welch-Larson returns to the VCW hall to discuss horror movies and how Evangelicals approach that genre. In the second half, we have a spoiler-filled discussion about the thought-provoking new Netflix horror miniseries Midnight Mass. Follow Sarah Welch-Larson on Twitter:  @dodgyboffin Pick up a copy of Sarah Welch-Larson's book "Becoming Alien" about the Alien film franchise seen through the lens of Dr. Catherine Keller's theology:  https://wipfandstock.com/9781725283008/becoming-alien/ Sarah's recent writing: https://www.brightwalldarkroom.com/2021/10/06/stealing-fire-frankenstein-1931/ https://thinkchristian.net/finding-grace-in-screen-violence https://www.brightwalldarkroom.com/2021/06/11/ill-see-you-in-hell/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Blake Chastain, host of the popular podcast Exvangelical, joins us to discuss his faith story and what Evangelicals (and others) get wrong about Exvangelicals, how faith shifts impact identity, relationships, parenting, and more. Plus, Blake and Zach discuss the music of Dave Bazan, and what it's meant to them during their faith journeys. Follow Blake Chastain on Twitter:  @brchastain Listen to the Exvangelical podcast:  https://www.exvangelicalpodcast.com/ Further Reading: Marlene Winnell - Leaving the Fold: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BD5ILAW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 Jamie Lee Finch - You Are Your Own: https://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own-Christianity-ebook/dp/B07TDNMK8K/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=jamie+lee+finch&qid=1634453407&s=digital-text&sr=1-2 Pedro the Lion/Dave Bazan Songs mentioned on the podcast: "People" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/people-2 "The Secret of the Easy Yoke" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/secret-of-the-easy-yoke "Hard to Be" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/hard-to-be "Foregone Conclusions" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/forgone-conclusions "The Fleecing" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/the-fleecing "Slow and Steady Wins the Race" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/slow-and-steady-wins-the-race "Bands With Managers" - https://pedrothelion.bandcamp.com/track/bands-with-managers Semler: T.G.F.T. EP - https://open.spotify.com/album/5JAeOD4hK5JY33KXOueTk7?si=RHTpfNqSTWSh44aOrpLUsA Preacher's Kid - https://open.spotify.com/album/20lA7mlCMab9U1jhRusPEI?si=RB9lYg1tTC-CjhR5pbEIqw -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Dr. Jessica Johnson (author of Biblical Porn: Affect, Labor, and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire) returns to talk about her new piece in Religion Dispatches critiquing Christianity Today's "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" podcast. We also discuss Driscoll's recent pamphlet "Christian Theology Vs Critical Theory".  Read her article here: https://religiondispatches.org/sharing-many-of-the-same-flaws-as-its-subject-the-rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill-podcast-puts-blame-anywhere-but-where-it-belongs/ Follow Dr. Jessica Johnson on Twitter:  @dr_jessjohnson Order Dr. Jessica Johnson's book "Biblical Porn" here:  https://www.dukeupress.edu/biblical-porn Mentioned on the Pod: Book:  Richard Delgado "Critical Race Theory.  Order here:  https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-us/books/richard-delgado/critical-race-theory-third-edition/9781479802760?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvIqtie_D8wIVxT2tBh3Eygi_EAQYAyABEgIoP_D_BwE#GOR011122618 Book:  Kimberle Crenshaw "On Intersectionality".  Order here:  https://www.target.com/p/on-intersectionality-by-kimberl-crenshaw-hardcover/-/A-82947255?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&DFA=71700000012510700&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment%2BShopping%7CEntertainment_Ecomm_Hardlines&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&LNM=PRODUCT_GROUP&network=g&device=c&location=9033307&targetid=pla-308131048976&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7aflsO_D8wIVFiCtBh1vAw2DEAQYAiABEgJicvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Book:  Derrick Bell "And We Are Not Saved:  The Elusive Quest for Racial Justice". Order here:  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/and-we-are-not-saved-the-elusive-quest-for-racial-justice_derrick-a-bell/315727/item/4398451/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqa6s0-_D8wIVkLh3Ch2nrwGDEAQYAyABEgL-UfD_BwE#idiq=4398451&edition=2401748 -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Roger Ebert said, "The movies are like a machine that generates empathy." Film critic and author Jeffrey Overstreet joins the pod to talk about how Evangelicals approach movies, cinematic art, transcendence, and empathy, as well as spiritually based themes in the films by the Coen Bros.  He also shares some of his favorite films from 2020. -Jeffrey Overstreet's website:  lookingcloser.org -"The Theology of the Coen Brothers? A Conversation Between Matt Zoller Seitz and Jeffrey Overstreet" https://www.lookingcloser.org/blog/2018/04/20/the-theology-of-the-coen-brothers-a-conversation-between-matt-zoller-seitz-and-jeffrey-overstreet/ -Buy Jeffrey's memoir of moviegoing and faith, "Through a Screen Darkly": https://www.amazon.com/Through-Screen-Darkly-Looking-Closer/dp/0830743154/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1N4KTUBB4XHQO&dchild=1&keywords=through+a+screen+darkly&qid=1613176010&sprefix=through+a+screen+%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-1 -Buy Jeffrey's fantasy novel "Auralia's Colors":  https://www.thriftbooks.com/series/the-auralia-thread/42859/ Mentioned on the Pod: Book:  "Amazing Grace:  A Vocabulary of Faith" by Kathleen Norris. Song:  "Street Hassle" by Lou Reed. Film:  Midnight Run (d. Martin Brest) Film:  Extra Ordinary (d. Mike Ahern and Enda Loughman) Film:  Lady Bird (d. Greta Gerwig) Film:  Little Fish (d. Chad Hartigan) Film:  Save Yourselves! (d. Alex Huston Fischer and Eleanor Wilson) Overstreet's Top 5 Films of 2020: 5) Shirley (d. Josephine Decker) 4) Bloody Nose, Empty Pockets (d. Bill Ross IV, Turner Ross) 3) Lover's Rock (d. Steve McQueen) 2) Minari (d. Lee Isaac Chung) 1) Nomadland (d. Chloe Zhao) -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Jeffrey- @overstweet Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Revisiting our wonderful conversation with New York Times Bestselling author of "Jesus and John Wayne", Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez.   Author of the book "Jesus and John Wayne:  How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation", Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins the pod to talk about how white evangelicals redefined Biblical masculinity to fit the militant masculinity of secular icons like John Wayne, Teddy Roosevelt, and William Wallace. We talk about Mark Driscoll, Donald Trump, Beth Moore, egalitarianism and complementarianism in the church, Explo '72, Hal Lindsey's "Countdown to Armageddon", Kristin's favorite John Wayne film and more. For more information on "Jesus and John Wayne" and Dr. Kristin Du Mez and to get a copy of the book, you can go here: https://kristindumez.com/books/jesus-and-john-wayne/ Get a copy of Kristin's first book "A New Gospel for Women:  Katharine Bushnell and the Challenge of Christian Feminism" by going here: https://kristindumez.com/books/new-gospel-for-women/ Follow Kristin on Twitter:   @kkdumez Mentioned on the pod: -Leah Payne, who is writing a book about Contemporary Christian Music.  For more information on Dr. Payne and updates on her forthcoming book you can follow her on Twitter:  @drleahpayne and view her bio on the Portland Seminary website:  https://www.georgefox.edu/seminary/faculty/bio/leah-payne.html -God's Forever Family: The Jesus People Movement in America by Larry Eskridge. You can get that book here:  https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195326451.001.0001/acprof-9780195326451 -Daniel Silliman's upcoming book Reading Evangelicals: How Christian Fiction Shaped a Culture and a Faith. Follow him at @danielsilliman -Bill Bright and Campus Crusade for Christ: The Renewal of Evangelicalism in Postwar America by John G. Turner https://uncpress.org/book/9780807858738/bill-bright-and-campus-crusade-for-christ/ -The Armageddon Experience - One Way (Live at Explo '72) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MoYtlhdirw -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Revisiting our conversation with Jessica Johnson, a professor (at William and Mary College) and author of "Biblical Porn:  Affect, Labor and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire".  We talk about her anthropology work at Mars Hill Church in Seattle (from 2006-2008) which resulted in the definitive book about that megachurch.  Zach and Dave have shared their stories about being a part of Mars Hill Church in past episodes so this is an exploration of the megachurch's history, teachings and culture.  Jessica also shares about her current work on Jerry Falwell Jr and explains her developing thoughts on the culture war. Mentioned on the pod: Book:  "Biblical Porn: Affect, Labor and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire" by Jessica Johnson.  Order here: 00:53:50.793 Zach.23 6 00:40:37.942 Article:  "The Self-Radicalization of White Men: 'Fake News' and Affective Networking of Paranoia" by Jessica Johnson.  Read here: https://www.academia.edu/36332026/The_Self_Radicalization_of_White_Men_Fake_News_and_the_Affective_Networking_of_Paranoia Article:  "Porn Again Christian?  Mark Driscoll, Mars Hill Church, and the Pornification of the Pulpit" by Jessica Johnson.  Read here:  https://www.academia.edu/12465355/Porn_Again_Christian_Mark_Driscoll_Mars_Hill_Church_and_the_Pornification_of_the_Pulpit Article:  "Trolling on Mission to Save a 'Pussified Nation'" by Jessica Johnson.  Read here: https://www.academia.edu/12474361/Trolling_on_Mission_to_Save_a_Pussified_Nation_Society_for_the_Social_Scientific_Study_of_Religion_2015_Paper_Abstract_accepted_ Article:  "Review of Jessica Johnson, Biblical Porn: Affect, Labor and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire" by Greg Carey.  Read here: https://www.bibleandcriticaltheory.com/issues/vol-15-no-2-2019-bible-and-critical-theory/review-of-jessica-johnson-biblical-porn-affect-labor-and-pastor-mark-driscolls-evangelical-empire/ Article on "Pussified Nation":  "Inside Mark Driscoll's Disturbed Mind" by Rachel Held Evans.  Read here: https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/driscoll-troubled-mind-william-wallace Website on Mars Hill Church:  Joyful Exiles.  https://joyfulexiles.com/ Blog:  "Hello, my name is Mike, I'm a Recovering True Believer" by Mike Anderson:  http://mikeyanderson.com/hello-name-mike-im-recovering-true-believer Blog:  "It's All About Mark Driscoll:  The Tragedy of Mars Hill Church" by Dave Lester:  https://dangeroushope.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/its-all-about-mark-driscoll-the-tragedy-of-mars-hill-church/ -Purchase a vinyl copy of Zach Malm's Christmas album "The Darkest Night of the Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year -Zach has created a new mix of Christmas music.  40 tracks and over an hour and a half.  Download the music here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CbencqOQ4ti_r6jVjbiKloZpe9GmbEI7/view?fbclid=IwAR0xwEBkzLPgyJMBbisCN3FBcHzIii4a1ADSsmA2_1SQ1X7xr29cvLxSMSg -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester VCW- @vcwpod Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

EPISODE REPLAY:  We were honored to talk with Christian activist Shane Claiborne earlier this year about America's epidemic of gun violence.  We recorded this episode on March 24th - a few days after mass shootings in Atlanta and Boulder, and the 3rd anniversary of the March For Our Lives. The conversation includes why gun violence is both a heart problem and a law/legislation problem, why Americans make idols of guns and rugged individualism, and Virginia becoming the 23rd state to outlaw the death penalty.  The problem of gun violence can certainly look bleak, but Shane has an infectious hope that meaningful change is possible, and we felt more hopeful after talking with him. "He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples.  They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.  Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." Isaiah 2:4, NIV Find Shane Claiborne online: Twitter:  @shaneclaiborne Facebook:  ShaneClaiborne Instagram:  ShaneClaiborne Books by Shane Claiborne: Beating Guns: Hope for People Who are Weary of Violence by Shane Claiborne and Michael Martin. Order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books/products/beating-guns-hope-for-people-who-are-weary-of-violence Executing Grace: How the Death Penalty Killed Jesus and Why Its Killing us by Shane Claiborne.  Order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books/products/beating-guns-hope-for-people-who-are-weary-of-violence Other books by Shane you can view and order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books Article on Shane Claiborne's activism:  https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/god-guns-and-country-the-evangelical-fight-over-firearms Mentioned on the Pod: Article:  Virginia bans the death penalty.  https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/virginia-governor-signs-law-death-penalty/index.html Article:  8 million people have left the church between 2016-2020.  https://newrepublic.com/article/161772/can-religion-give-ptsd Article:  Seeing Gun Violence as Pro-Life Issue by Shane Claiborne.  https://baptistnews.com/article/seeing-gun-violence-as-a-pro-life-issue/#.YGOmJ0hKiSM Article:  Rethinking the Second Amendment by Shane Claiborne.  https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/3/24/22347346/maybe-its-time-to-rethink-the-second-amendment-christians -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Jolie Monea and Tiffany Eneas, formerly members of The Trinity Church in Scottsdale, AZ, join the pod to talk about their experiences at Mark Driscoll's desert church, where Mark and Grace Driscoll present themselves as spiritual "father" and "mother" in front of the church while congregants are the "family". Jolie also shares about how her long-term friendship with the Driscolls (one of her daughters is married to one of the Driscoll sons) led to her family being part of a small home group with them after Mark resigned from Mars Hill, then ultimately moving with the Driscolls from Seattle down to Scottsdale when Mark was starting The Trinity Church.  Finally, Tiffany shares how God used Beavis and Butthead to bring her and her husband (former guest Ben Eneas) together. Mentioned on the pod: Professor Warren Throckmorton interviews former Mars Hill Executive Elders Sutton Turner and Dave Bruskas:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkPwP4ng5l4 Jolie Monea's "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/07/02/postcards-from-phoenix-when-family-ties-are-tested/ Tiffany Eneas' "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/06/02/postcards-from-phoenix-when-church-demands-obedience/ Kim Thompson's "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/08/12/postcards-from-phoenix-too-good-to-be-true/ Luke Chase's "Postcards from Phoenix":  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/05/30/postcards-from-phoenix-when-church-divides-a-family/ Babylon Bee:  Marco Driscolito:  https://babylonbee.com/news/hot-new-seattle-church-launched-by-mexican-american-pastor-marco-driscolito?fbclid=IwAR1nYkZGiru_uSh_8qBMVISfFJSYeQ3cXbAYaF2nVeLiifhCZKO94ahvsGQ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Larry Norman biographer Gregory Alan Thornbury (Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music) joins the podcast to talk about the godfather of Christian rock music and the larger Jesus Movement that he inspired and later disavowed. He also talks about Critical Kayfabe Theory, a way of interpreting the actions of public figures like Mark Driscoll through the lens of professional wrestlers, who have a strict code of staying in character, and what happens when things go off script.  Get a copy of "Why Should the Devil Have All the Good Music: Larry Norman and the Perils of Christian Rock" right here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/537583/why-should-the-devil-have-all-the-good-music-by-gregory-alan-thornbury/ Follow Greg Thornbury on Twitter:  @greg_thornbury Read the viral article on Kayfabe theory on David Dark's Substack:  https://daviddark.substack.com/p/on-metaphor-and-kayfabe -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Our first official return guest, Stephanie Drury from Stuff Christian Culture Likes, comes back on the pod. We talk about a variety of things related to the Christianity Today podcast "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill". In what ways did Mark Driscoll shape Mars Hill into a rape culture and teach about sex in specific ways that re-traumatized victims of sexual violence? Why did so many women at Mars Hill reach out to Stephanie, and what were their stories like? Is the Christianity Today podcast doing a better job of centering victims or protecting institutions? Find Stephanie: Twitter:  @Stuffcclikes Facebook:  Stuff Christian Culture Likes Website:  www.stuffchristianculturelikes.com Podcasts:  "Dongtini", "Hard Feelings Bro" Some Podcasts where she was a guest:  https://www.owltail.com/people/yNFHA-stephanie-drury/appearances -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Matt Nightingale joins us to discuss the new Netflix documentary Pray Away, his own experience with gay conversion therapy, and his subsequent journey to acceptance, involving coming out as a married dad in his 40s. We also talk about 2 major figures in evangelicalism and what they meant to him: author Rachel Held Evans, and Jesus Movement hippie preacher Lonnie Frisbee, a gay man who claimed to meet Jesus during an LSD trip in the desert and was instrumental in the founding of the Calvary Chapel and Vineyard denominations. Connect with Matt Nightingale: Website:  https://mattnightingale.com/ Twitter:  @mattnightingale Matt's church, The Quest:  https://wearethequest.org/ Matt's non-profit, Common Sanctuary:  https://mattnightingale.com/common-sanctuary/ Mentioned on the Pod: Book- "Searching for Sunday:  Loving, Leaving and Finding the Church" by Rachel Held Evans.  Order here:  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/searching-for-sunday-loving-leaving-and-finding-the-church/9198144/#edition=8484461&idiq=8270902 Book:  "Inspired:  Slaying Giants, Walking on Water, and Loving the Bible Again" by Rachel Held Evans.  Order here:  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/inspired-slaying-giants-walking-on-water-and-loving-the-bible-again_rachel-held-evans/18601414/#edition=19797699&idiq=27978585 Documentary:  "Frisbee: The Life and Death of a Hippie Preacher". Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv3O8SseOio Documentary:  Netflix's "Pray Away".  Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Stories of control and paranoia from The Trinity Church, where at least one leader believes Mark Driscoll is the closest thing to Jesus on earth. Chad and Ben talk about how they ended up there, why they left, and why they feel Mark Driscoll should not be leading a church. Follow Chad Freese on Twitter:  @deardriscoll Mentioned on the podcast: -Former security director Chad Freese's website:  https://www.deardriscoll.com/ -Tiffany Eneas (Ben's wife) wrote about her experiences on Warren Throckmorton's blog:  https://www.wthrockmorton.com/2021/06/02/postcards-from-phoenix-when-church-demands-obedience/ -Julie Roys interview where Chad and Ben shared their experiences and other accounts at The Trinity Church:  https://julieroys.com/podcast/inside-the-driscoll-cult/ -Warren Throckmorton interviews former executive elders at Mars Hill Church, Sutton Turner and Dave Bruskas:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkPwP4ng5l4 -A 15 year old teenager and one of Driscoll's daughters share a kiss and the aftermath:  https://churchleaders.com/news/396679-new-church-similar-stories-is-mark-driscoll-an-abusive-leader.html -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave discuss the first three episodes of Christianity Today's new podcast "The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill" by Mike Cosper, and Zach gives his thoughts on the fourth episode (which was released after our initial recording). Mentioned in this episode: The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill: https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill/ Raft of Dead Monkeys: https://raftofdeadmonkeys.bandcamp.com/ Ninety Pound Wuss: https://open.spotify.com/artist/0VOvF0kfqCTRe37XzWQdvH Suffering and the Hideous Thieves: https://open.spotify.com/artist/7oAXG4Q2lwnj2xhUDE67bt -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Evangelical subculture has a habit of copying different art forms from the wider culture.  In the era of superhero movies developed from long running Marvel and DC comic books, what were Christian comic books like?  Cultural critic and co-host of the podcast Young Adult Movie Ministry, Sam Thielman joins the pod to discuss Christian comic books and committed Christian personalities who have worked in the comic industry.  He also shares his story with Evangelical Christianity including his family's connection to Billy Graham and Franklin Graham.   Connect with Sam Thielman: @samthielman on Twitter Subscribe to Young Adult Movie Ministry Podcast:  https://yammpod.substack.com/ Mentioned on the Pod: -Sam writes on the Satanic Panic via a film review of "The Conjuring:  The Devil Made Me Do It":  https://popula.com/2021/06/28/demons-panic-and-memory/ -Sam's obituary for Christian comic writer Jack Chick in The Guardian:  https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death -Unpublished DC Comic where Swamp Thing meets Jesus Christ.  Information on that issue here:  https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Swamp_Thing_Vol_2_88_(Unpublished) -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author, mom, and math teacher Wendy Alsup joins the podcast to talk about masculinity (farmers vs warriors), her excellent book "Companions in Suffering", and her thoughts on forgiveness (which will be in a forthcoming book released in January 2022). Connect with Wendy Alsup: Website featuring her ministry and work:  https://theologyforwomen.org/ Email:  theologyforwomen@gmail.com Twitter:  @wendyalsup Mentioned on the pod: -Wendy's article on masculinity (farmers vs warriors):  https://modernreformation.org/resource-library/web-exclusive-articles/the-model-for-christian-manhood/ -Wendy's book "Companions in Suffering:  Comfort for Times of Loss and Loneliness".  Buy the book here:  https://www.ivpress.com/companions-in-suffering -Wendy's book "Is the Bible Good for Women?".  Buy the book here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/536308/is-the-bible-good-for-women-by-wendy-alsup/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Do evangelicals want to know the truth about abusive pastors? American history? Conversion therapy? In this wide ranging interview, Professor Warren Throckmorton talks about his Baptist background and journey with Evangelical Christianity. He discusses being a psychology professor and studying gender and sexuality, learning and changing his mind on LGBTQ issues and opposing an anti-gay law in Uganda. We also discuss his reporting on Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church continuing on with Driscoll's current organization, The Trinity Church in Scottsdale, Arizona. Read Professor Throckmorton's reporting (including about Mark Driscoll and Trinity Church) here: https://www.wthrockmorton.com/ Other reporting about Mark Driscoll and Trinity Church: -https://julieroys.com/mark-driscoll-cult-like-actions-24-7-surveillance-loyalty/ -https://julieroys.com/driscoll-honeymoon-church-funds-interns-gift-cards/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave are back from a break! Zach presses Dave on whether he is still an Evangelical.  Zach discusses what he has been learning about religious trauma.  Both hosts talk about their favorites movies of 2020 and argue about whether "Shrek" is a good movie (this is still not a debate show, but there are some assertions that require a response, evidence that demands a verdict).  The latest with the Southern Baptist Denomination is discussed as well. Topics mentioned on the Pod: -Dr. Russell Moore's leaked letter addressed to SBC executives:  https://religionnews.com/2021/06/02/leaked-russell-moore-letter-blasts-sbc-conservatives-sheds-light-on-his-resignation/ -Further commentary on Dr. Moore's letter:  https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/russell-moores-cri-de-coeur-should -SBC scandals:  https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/06/russell-moore-sbc/619122/ -SBC struggles to condemn white supremacy.  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-southern-baptist-convention-alt-right-white-supremacy/530244/ -SBC apologizes for slavery....in 1995.  https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1995-06-21-mn-15534-story.html -More on David Bebbington quadrilateral in defining Evangelicalism:  https://www.nae.net/what-is-an-evangelical/ Books about Religious Trauma Syndrome: Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winnell - http://marlenewinell.net/leaving-fold-former You are Your Own: A Reckoning With the Religious Trauma of Evangelical Christianity by Jamie Lee Finch - https://jamieleefinch.com/you-are-your-own CORRECTION:  Dave communicated that the Southern Baptist Convention had not condemned white supremacy.  In fact, they did condemn white supremacy but only after a seismic struggle.  Dave regrets the error.  https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/06/14/532998287/southern-baptist-convention-votes-to-condemn-white-supremacy -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

From the Non-Partisan Evangelical Podcast, Pastor Paul Swearengin joins us to talk about the reasons people are leaving the Evangelical church based on polling information given in a recent Gallup religion survey.  We discuss the toxic mixture of faith and political power, racism in the church, marginalization of LGBTQ people and people not believing they find Jesus in the general church anymore.  We also discuss the article "Losing Our Religion" by Russell Moore, the president of Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. Find Pastor Paul online: -The Non-Partisan Evangelical Podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/non-partisan-evangelical-podcast/id1481467496 -Pastor Paul on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCabLAOY-w63Qn8SK37RRfhA -Pastor Paul on TikTok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@pastorpaul_tiktok?lang=en -On Twitter:  @oldpastorpaul Mentioned on the podcast: -Gallup survey results (47% of Americans belong to a church):  https://news.gallup.com/poll/341963/church-membership-falls-below-majority-first-time.aspx -Russell Moore article "Losing Our Religion":  https://www.russellmoore.com/2021/04/15/losing-our-religion/ -A response to Russell Moore's article by Chrissy Stroop (we read this piece after recording the pod):  https://flux.community/chrissy-stroop/2021/04/suicidal-christian-teenagers-open-letter-russell-moore -Lil Nax X's music video for "Montero":  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6swmTBVI83k -Ally Henny's story on Pass the Mic Podcast:  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/leave-loud-ally-hennys-story-part-1/id1435500798?i=1000513969746 More information on the Gallup survey results: -Holy Post Podcast episode 452:  https://www.holypost.com/holy-post-podcast/episode/24a32201/episode-452-the-messy-call-to-christian-unity-with-francis-chan -FiveThirtyEight Podcast "Americans Are Losing Their Religion.  That's Changing Politics.":  https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-americans-are-losing-their-religion-thats-changing-politics/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Lindsey DuBois joins the pod to talk about her experiences in the Evangelical church and her work as a clinical hospital chaplain especially in the time of COVID.  Lindsey is doing incredibly courageous work helping and praying with people walking through experiences of traumatic loss and grief. -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Evangelical activist Shane Claiborne joins the podcast to talk about America's epidemic of gun violence.  We recorded this episode on March 24th - a few days after mass shootings in Atlanta and Boulder, and the 3rd anniversary of the March For Our Lives. The conversation includes why gun violence is both a heart problem and a law/legislation problem, why Americans make idols of guns and rugged individualism, and Virginia becoming the 23rd state to outlaw the death penalty.  The problem of gun violence can certainly look bleak, but Shane has an infectious hope that meaningful change is possible, and we felt more hopeful after talking with him. "He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples.  They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.  Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore." Isaiah 2:4, NIV Find Shane Claiborne online: Twitter:  @shaneclaiborne Facebook:  ShaneClaiborne Instagram:  ShaneClaiborne Books by Shane Claiborne: Beating Guns: Hope for People Who are Weary of Violence by Shane Claiborne and Michael Martin. Order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books/products/beating-guns-hope-for-people-who-are-weary-of-violence Executing Grace: How the Death Penalty Killed Jesus and Why Its Killing us by Shane Claiborne.  Order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books/products/beating-guns-hope-for-people-who-are-weary-of-violence Other books by Shane you can view and order here:  https://thesimpleway.myshopify.com/collections/books Article on Shane Claiborne's activism:  https://www.newyorker.com/news/on-religion/god-guns-and-country-the-evangelical-fight-over-firearms Mentioned on the Pod: Article:  Virginia bans the death penalty.  https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/24/politics/virginia-governor-signs-law-death-penalty/index.html Article:  8 million people have left the church between 2016-2020.  https://newrepublic.com/article/161772/can-religion-give-ptsd Article:  Seeing Gun Violence as Pro-Life Issue by Shane Claiborne.  https://baptistnews.com/article/seeing-gun-violence-as-a-pro-life-issue/#.YGOmJ0hKiSM Article:  Rethinking the Second Amendment by Shane Claiborne.  https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/3/24/22347346/maybe-its-time-to-rethink-the-second-amendment-christians -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author Sarah Welch-Larson (Becoming Alien:  The Beginning and End of Evil in Science Fiction's Most Idiosyncratic Film Franchise) joins the pod to talk about evil and creation/discreation in the Alien film franchise, and her interpretation of the series through the lens of Dr. Catherine Keller's "The Face of the Deep: A Theology of Becoming". Get a copy of Sarah Welch-Larson's book by going here:  https://wipfandstock.com/9781725283008/becoming-alien/ Follow Sarah on Twitter:  @dodgyboffin Read her film writing at Bright Wall Dark Room: https://www.brightwalldarkroom.com/author/sarahwelch/ Mentioned on the Pod: Film: Alien (Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ5lPt9edzQ) Film: Aliens (Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSeQQlaCZgU) Film: Alien 3 (Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUTaNMJJBa8) Film: Alien Resurrection (Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15g12dGxWX4) Film: Prometheus (Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHcHYisZFLU) Film: Alien Covenant (Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svnAD0TApb8) Book:  The Face of the Deep: A Theology of Becoming by Dr. Catherine Keller.  Order here:  https://www.routledge.com/The-Face-of-the-Deep-A-Theology-of-Becoming/Keller/p/book/9780415256490 -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach created this audio collage for our upcoming episode discussing gun violence with Shane Claiborne, and we've decided to release it now as a standalone episode, in recognition of the recent mass shootings, and to affirm our support for meaningful change to reduce gun violence in America. Every name you hear is a victim of gun violence.  Where you can help: https://everytown.org/ https://momsdemandaction.org/ Where you can learn: Shane Claiborne and Michael Martin - Beating Guns: Hope for People Who Are Weary of Violence http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/beating-guns/388780 Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - Loaded: A Disarming History of the Second Amendment http://www.citylights.com/book/?GCOI=87286100460830 Shane Claiborne op-ed 3/24/2021 - "Maybe it’s time to rethink the Second Amendment" https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/3/24/22347346/maybe-its-time-to-rethink-the-second-amendment-christians

Peacemakers Andrew Larsen and Cari Conklin-Larsen join the pod to talk about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and some of the Evangelical theological beliefs that shape America's approach to this ongoing crisis. Mentioned on the pod: Jewish Voice for Peace- Video:  Israel Palestine Conflict 101.  https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/israeli-palestinian-conflict-101/?fbclid=IwAR1Y0n21BelyVv6sibgKPpFWOLmWOBB6-XsMiPjcN0gBm7d787-OMtPBKNE Video:  Reporting on the Vaccine rollout in Palestine.  https://www.democracynow.org/2021/3/4/vaccine_rollout_palestinian_territories_israel?fbclid=IwAR3Jm_dKLWElNIpiytdv-Xvlx0AlBhk0k-BzJvF-aWZ99Bqtx0f3xK0J8vs Article:  International Criminal Court opens war crimes investigation in Palestinian territories.  https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-icc-prosecutor-says-will-open-investigation-into-war-crimes-in-palestinian-territori-1.9586293?fbclid=IwAR32gWxoU-3Fwfw4k-2482iA5SvqXTdP2QrK4ov9owSCFbhmV_IUpkpcPf4 Book:  The Other Side of the Wall:  A Palestinian Christian Narrative of Lament and Hope by Munther Isaac.  Order here: https://www.ivpress.com/the-other-side-of-the-wall Book:  Palestine Speaks:  Narratives of Life Under Occupation edited by Mateo Hoke and Cate Malek.  Order book here:  https://voiceofwitness.org/oral-history-book-series/palestine-speaks-voices-from-the-west-bank-and-gaza/ Book:  The End of the Peace Process:  Oslo and After by Edward Said.  Order the book here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/159792/the-end-of-the-peace-process-by-edward-w-said/ Book:  A Wall in Jerusalem: Hope, Healing, and the Struggle for Justice in Israel and Palestine by Mark Braverman.  Order the book here:  https://www.amazon.com/Wall-Jerusalem-Healing-Struggle-Palestine/dp/1455574201 Book:  Jesus and the Land: The New Testament Challenge to Holy Land Theology by Gary M. Burge.  Order the book here:  https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/jesus-and-the-land-the-new-testament-challenge-to-holy-land-theology_gary-m-burge/642469/item/15020765/?mkwid=%7cdc&pcrid=475047084461&pkw=&pmt=&slid=&plc=&pgrid=110814253894&ptaid=pla-988546642473&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7Pygw9PG7wIVwwytBh3mUQ0-EAQYASABEgKtYPD_BwE#idiq=15020765&edition=6856024 You can reach out to Andrew Larsen and Cari Conklin-Larsen on Facebook if you are interested in touring Israel/Palestine: -https://www.facebook.com/andrew.e.larsen -https://www.facebook.com/cariconklin68 -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author of the book "Jesus and John Wayne:  How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation", Dr. Kristin Kobes Du Mez joins the pod to talk about how white evangelicals redefined Biblical masculinity to fit the militant masculinity of secular icons like John Wayne, Teddy Roosevelt, and William Wallace. We talk about Mark Driscoll, Donald Trump, Beth Moore, egalitarianism and complementarianism in the church, Explo '72, Hal Lindsey's "Countdown to Armageddon", Kristin's favorite John Wayne film and more. For more information on "Jesus and John Wayne" and Dr. Kristin Du Mez and to get a copy of the book, you can go here: https://kristindumez.com/books/jesus-and-john-wayne/ Get a copy of Kristin's first book "A New Gospel for Women:  Katharine Bushnell and the Challenge of Christian Feminism" by going here: https://kristindumez.com/books/new-gospel-for-women/ Follow Kristin on Twitter:   @kkdumez Mentioned on the pod: -Leah Payne, who is writing a book about Contemporary Christian Music.  For more information on Dr. Payne and updates on her forthcoming book you can follow her on Twitter:  @drleahpayne and view her bio on the Portland Seminary website:  https://www.georgefox.edu/seminary/faculty/bio/leah-payne.html -God's Forever Family: The Jesus People Movement in America by Larry Eskridge. You can get that book here:  https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195326451.001.0001/acprof-9780195326451 -Daniel Silliman's upcoming book Reading Evangelicals: How Christian Fiction Shaped a Culture and a Faith. Follow him at @danielsilliman -Bill Bright and Campus Crusade for Christ: The Renewal of Evangelicalism in Postwar America by John G. Turner https://uncpress.org/book/9780807858738/bill-bright-and-campus-crusade-for-christ/ -The Armageddon Experience - One Way (Live at Explo '72) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MoYtlhdirw -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: @vcwpod Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Benito Cereno, co-host of the Apocrypals podcast and comics writer (Invincible, The Tick) joins the pod to discuss the Biblical canon and extra-Biblical literature. Spoiler alert: it's weird! He also talks about his upbringing in the Southern Baptist Church and his life as a comic book writer. Dave plays trivia host as Zach and Benito face off in a game of "God-Breathed or Not-Breathed". Check out Benito's work and podcast: https://benito-cereno.tumblr.com/ https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Benito- @benito_cereno Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Pastor of Renewal Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, Ryan Egli, joins the podcast to talk about his multi-denomination life journey in Evangelical Christianity.  From Charismatic roots to Cornerstone Music Festival to the Mennonite Faith to a Grace Brethren College and beyond, he describes his experiences through different expressions of Evangelicalism.  He also talks about his commitment to pacifism and non-violence inspired by the influence of the Mennonite faith, Jesus' Kingdom vs Evangelical Nationalism and what it is like to be a pastor during the age of COVID and racial unrest. -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Ryan- @ryanegli Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Roger Ebert said, "The movies are like a machine that generates empathy." Film critic and author Jeffrey Overstreet joins the pod to talk about how Evangelicals approach movies, cinematic art, transcendence, and empathy, as well as spiritually based themes in the films by the Coen Bros.  He also shares some of his favorite films from 2020. -Jeffrey Overstreet's website:  lookingcloser.org -"The Theology of the Coen Brothers? A Conversation Between Matt Zoller Seitz and Jeffrey Overstreet" https://www.lookingcloser.org/blog/2018/04/20/the-theology-of-the-coen-brothers-a-conversation-between-matt-zoller-seitz-and-jeffrey-overstreet/ -Buy Jeffrey's memoir of moviegoing and faith, "Through a Screen Darkly": https://www.amazon.com/Through-Screen-Darkly-Looking-Closer/dp/0830743154/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1N4KTUBB4XHQO&dchild=1&keywords=through+a+screen+darkly&qid=1613176010&sprefix=through+a+screen+%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-1 -Buy Jeffrey's fantasy novel "Auralia's Colors":  https://www.thriftbooks.com/series/the-auralia-thread/42859/ Mentioned on the Pod: Book:  "Amazing Grace:  A Vocabulary of Faith" by Kathleen Norris.    Song:  "Street Hassle" by Lou Reed.   Film:  Midnight Run (d. Martin Brest) Film:  Extra Ordinary (d. Mike Ahern and Enda Loughman) Film:  Lady Bird (d. Greta Gerwig) Film:  Little Fish (d. Chad Hartigan) Film:  Save Yourselves! (d. Alex Huston Fischer and Eleanor Wilson) Overstreet's Top 5 Films of 2020: 5) Shirley (d. Josephine Decker) 4) Bloody Nose, Empty Pockets (d. Bill Ross IV, Turner Ross) 3) Lover's Rock (d. Steve McQueen) 2) Minari (d. Lee Isaac Chung) 1) Nomadland (d. Chloe Zhao) -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Jeffrey- @overstweet Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Managing director of the Center for Barth Studies at Princeton Theological Seminary, Kait Dugan joins the pod to talk about Evangelicals and Qanon as well as share her story with Evangelical Christianity.  We chat about why Evangelicals seem susceptible to belief in conspiracy theories and more. Articles on Evangelicals and Qanon: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-faqs-what-christians-should-know-about-qanon/ https://religionnews.com/2021/02/11/survey-more-than-a-quarter-of-white-evangelicals-believe-core-qanon-conspiracy-theory/ https://religionnews.com/2020/12/01/eric-metaxas-and-the-losing-of-the-evangelical-mind/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/08/26/1007611/how-qanon-is-targeting-evangelicals/ https://religionunplugged.com/news/2020/10/13/an-evangelicals-guide-to-qanon https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/17/opinion/evangelicals-qanon.html https://newrepublic.com/article/160922/capitol-riot-revealed-darkest-nightmares-white-evangelical-america https://www.relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/a-new-survey-suggests-white-evangelicals-are-most-likely-to-believe-qanon-conspiracies/ https://afterall.net/quotes/bonnie-kristian-on-the-false-prophecies-of-q/ -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Kait- @kaitdugan Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author Christy Rood comes on the podcast to discuss her faith story involving fundamentalism and her book on identity "Tracing the Threads: Examining the Story of Self for Lasting Change".  We discuss the different strands of fundamentalism and talk about how Evangelicals approach identity. Pick up a copy of her book here:  https://gcdiscipleship.com/books/tracing-the-thread Mentioned on the podcast: -Phil Vischer's video on "what is Evangelicalism?":  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiiRnO7UTTk -Phil Vischer podcast (with Phil Vischer) explaining the difference between Bob Jones-style fundamentalism and Billy Graham-style Evangelical.  https://philvischer.com/the-phil-vischer-podcast/episode-71-phils-great-uncle-iner-origins-of-evangelicalism-and-louis-cks-musings-on-emptiness/ -Patch the Pirate video (Sample) found here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8tAmbRxfwM -Book:  "Mindset:  The New Psychology of Success" by Carol Dweck, PH.D.  Order here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/44330/mindset-by-carol-s-dweck-phd/ -Film:  "Soul" from Pixar Studios.  Watch the trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs--6c7Hn_A -Check out Zach's music by going to:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Christy- @christyrood Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave chat about Dave Ramsey's financial guru empire that grew out of the Evangelical Church with a syncretistic blend of faith and American capitalism.  Also Zach shares a warning about the inherent demonic danger of Christian ventriloquial performance. On Ventriloquism: -Liberty Gospel Tracts - "What does the Bible say about ventriloquism?" - http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/ventriloquism.htm?fbclid=IwAR0iBlt5vDPhjhghnVNXFVisXy1NXc1FMIYFAd2-XvKq-YCyo3CqpmBZvxE Articles on Dave Ramsey mentioned or used as source material on the pod: -Matthew Paul Turner on Dave Ramsey "Spies, Cash and Fear:  Inside Christian Money Guru Dave Ramsey's Social Media Witch Hunt"  https://www.thedailybeast.com/spies-cash-and-fear-inside-christian-money-guru-dave-ramseys-social-media-witch-hunt -Bob Smietana's article, "Is Dave Ramsey's Empire the Best Place to Work in America?  Say 'No' and You're Out".  https://religionnews.com/2021/01/15/dave-ramsey-is-tired-of-being-called-a-jerk-for-his-stands-on-sex-and-covid/ -Dave Ramsey's full emailed response (through his public relations arm) to Bob Smietana's article:  https://religionnews.com/2021/01/15/full-ramsey-solutions-response/ -Article:  "The Gospel According to Dave" https://archive.is/9oIiJ -Article:  "Dave Ramsey Offers Powerful, Biblically Sound Response to Criticism over his Multi-Million Dollar Home". https://web.archive.org/web/20160306021332/http://www.gospelherald.com/articles/54676/20150310/dave-ramsey-offers-powerful-biblically-sound-response-to-criticism-over-his-multi-million-dollar-home.htm Zach's music can be experienced at https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Author and Professor (at Simon Fraser University) Joel Heng Hartse joins the pod to talk about the world of Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) with highlights into the indie CCM music scene in the 1990s when many of us came of age.  We also discuss the differences between Canadian Evangelicalism and American Evangelicalism. Joel is the author of "Sects, Love and Rock & Roll: My Life on Record (Experiences in Evangelicalism)" which you can get a copy of here: https://wipfandstock.com/sects-love-and-rock-roll.html.  His work has also been featured in Image, Christianity Today, Beliefnet, Paste, Christ & Pop Culture and The Stranger. ***Note: In a discussion about former pastor and author Joshua Harris, Dave stated that Harris was the pastor of Sovereign Grace Church.  In fact, Harris is the former pastor of Covenant Life Church which was the founding church of Sovereign Grace Ministries.  Dave regrets the error. Christian Bands mentioned on the pod: Sixpence None the Richer PFR (Pray for Rain) Poor Old Lu (Aaron Sprinkle) Five Iron Frenzy The OC Supertones dc Talk Newsboys Audio Adrenaline Amy Grant Michael W Smith Jars of Clay Switchfoot Pedro the Lion (David Bazan) The Kry The Insiderz Toby Mac Kevin Max Carman Some of Joel's favorite albums: The Prayer Chain:  Mercury MewithoutYou:  Brother, Sister The Lonely Forest:  Nuclear Winter Zach's music can be experienced at https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Joel- @joelhenghartse Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Adjunct professor of Bible and Theology at Trinity College Chris Date and Nate Jacobson join the pod to talk about the Evangelical belief in the negative hereafter.  An eternal Hell where unbelievers are tortured forever is a common belief in Evangelical circles but does the Bible actually teach about eternal conscious torment in a fiery pit? ______________________________ Check out Chris Date's website:  rethinkinghell.com and theopologetics.com. You can get a copy of Chris Date's book (with Phil Fernandes):  "Is Hell Forever:  Does the Bible Teach that Hell will be Annihilation or Eternal Torment?" For more information on the topic, check out:  "The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment" by Edward William Fudge Check out Nate Jacobson's writing and reflections:  https://afterall.net/ ______________________________ Mentioned on the Pod: Book:  "Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived" by Rob Bell.  Order here:  https://bookoutlet.com/Store/Details/9780062049650B?source=ppc&ppc_campaign=u1407004000&gclid=CjwKCAiAq8f-BRBtEiwAGr3DgZttOGur2O0_TbS2-Cje58x9pTQvis5hyRat-9BdgKAjPy3luw7aLBoCwzgQAvD_BwE Book:  "The Divine Conspiracy: Rediscovering Our Hidden Life in God" by Dallas Willard.  Order here:  https://www.christianbook.com/the-divine-conspiracy-dallas-willard/9780060693336/pd/69333?en=google&event=SHOP&kw=christian-living-0-20%7C69333&p=1179710&dv=c&gclid=CjwKCAiAq8f-BRBtEiwAGr3DgV9iEiUtyHsE94-5KvbkW_c70pO24dgoQZiMLhluSe2hqV05Akc_mxoCku0QAvD_BwE Zach's music can be experienced at https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Chris- @datechris Nate- @afterall_net Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Jessica Johnson, a professor (at William and Mary College) and author of "Biblical Porn:  Affect, Labor and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire", joins the pod to talk about her anthropology work at Mars Hill Church in Seattle (from 2006-2008) which resulted in the definitive book about that megachurch.  Zach and Dave have shared their stories about being a part of Mars Hill Church in past episodes so this is an exploration of the megachurch's history, teachings and culture.  Jessica also shares about her current work on Jerry Falwell Jr and explains her developing thoughts on the culture war. Mentioned on the pod: Book:  "Biblical Porn: Affect, Labor and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire" by Jessica Johnson.  Order here: 00:53:50.793 Zach.23 6 00:40:37.942 Article:  "The Self-Radicalization of White Men: 'Fake News' and Affective Networking of Paranoia" by Jessica Johnson.  Read here: https://www.academia.edu/36332026/The_Self_Radicalization_of_White_Men_Fake_News_and_the_Affective_Networking_of_Paranoia Article:  "Porn Again Christian?  Mark Driscoll, Mars Hill Church, and the Pornification of the Pulpit" by Jessica Johnson.  Read here:  https://www.academia.edu/12465355/Porn_Again_Christian_Mark_Driscoll_Mars_Hill_Church_and_the_Pornification_of_the_Pulpit Article:  "Trolling on Mission to Save a 'Pussified Nation'" by Jessica Johnson.  Read here: https://www.academia.edu/12474361/Trolling_on_Mission_to_Save_a_Pussified_Nation_Society_for_the_Social_Scientific_Study_of_Religion_2015_Paper_Abstract_accepted_ Article:  "Review of Jessica Johnson, Biblical Porn: Affect, Labor and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire" by Greg Carey.  Read here: https://www.bibleandcriticaltheory.com/issues/vol-15-no-2-2019-bible-and-critical-theory/review-of-jessica-johnson-biblical-porn-affect-labor-and-pastor-mark-driscolls-evangelical-empire/ Article on "Pussified Nation":  "Inside Mark Driscoll's Disturbed Mind" by Rachel Held Evans.  Read here: https://rachelheldevans.com/blog/driscoll-troubled-mind-william-wallace Website on Mars Hill Church:  Joyful Exiles.  https://joyfulexiles.com/ Blog:  "Hello, my name is Mike, I'm a Recovering True Believer" by Mike Anderson:  http://mikeyanderson.com/hello-name-mike-im-recovering-true-believer Blog:  "It's All About Mark Driscoll:  The Tragedy of Mars Hill Church" by Dave Lester:  https://dangeroushope.wordpress.com/2014/03/28/its-all-about-mark-driscoll-the-tragedy-of-mars-hill-church/ -Purchase a vinyl copy of Zach Malm's Christmas album "The Darkest Night of the Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year -Zach has created a new mix of Christmas music.  40 tracks and over an hour and a half.  Download the music here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CbencqOQ4ti_r6jVjbiKloZpe9GmbEI7/view?fbclid=IwAR0xwEBkzLPgyJMBbisCN3FBcHzIii4a1ADSsmA2_1SQ1X7xr29cvLxSMSg -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave were interviewed by Paul Swearengin of the "Non-Partisan Evangelical" Podcast.  This was recorded the night before our very first episode launched.  Thank you to Paul for having us on!  The conversation is in regards to the current status of the Evangelical church and what we think the future holds for this branch of American Christianity. __________________________________ -Check out the Non-Partisan Evangelical website here which includes podcasts, YouTube videos and more:  https://nonpartisanevangelical.com/ -You can get a copy of Paul Swearengin's debut novel:  "Joseph Comes to Town" by going here:  https://nonpartisanevangelical.com/joseph-comes-to-town-book/ Mentioned on the Pod: "Letters from a Birmingham Jail" by Martin Luther King Jr.  Read here:  https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/king-papers/documents/letter-birmingham-jail -Make sure you get your copy of Zach Malm's "The Darkest TIme of Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ -Check out music videos for some of the songs on "The Darkest Time of Year" by going to Zach's music channel on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2vlOs1iwoKxuvt8eCGD9g?reload=9 -Zach has created a new mix of Christmas music.  40 tracks and over an hour and a half.  Download the music here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CbencqOQ4ti_r6jVjbiKloZpe9GmbEI7/view?fbclid=IwAR0xwEBkzLPgyJMBbisCN3FBcHzIii4a1ADSsmA2_1SQ1X7xr29cvLxSMSg -Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Paul- @pswearenginNPE Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo done by Zach Malm

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Jeremy Cooper. Zach has a Christmas record out on vinyl!  Dave interviews his co-host about his Christmas album while chatting about how Evangelicals approach Christmas, how the message of Christmas is the opposite of the pursuit of political power and Zach's influences in recording his album.   Make sure you get your copy of Zach Malm's "The Darkest TIme of Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year Check out music videos for some of the songs on "The Darkest Time of Year" by going to Zach's music channel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2vlOs1iwoKxuvt8eCGD9g?reload=9 Zach has made a new mix of Christmas music. 40 tracks, over an hour and a half. Download it here, and happy listening!   https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CbencqOQ4ti_r6jVjbiKloZpe9GmbEI7/view?fbclid=IwAR1xi1UNXD5usqjgjbHWcC5L45nWHWIuGgblpyBxhdvOqebiTvSJpp__l_U Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm Other music sampled on this podcast that you should check out: Cooper & Yates- Original Christmas music album written and recorded by Jeremy Cooper and Eric Yates in Seattle, WA between the months of October and December 2015.  cooperyates.bandcamp.com. Parenthetical Girls- Christmas music album.  Released November 26, 2010.  parentheticalgirls.bandcamp.com FIgures by Figures- released January 18, 2017.  figuresfigures.bandcamp.com CORRECTION:  In the discussion, Dave openly asks about the Baptist pastor who wrote "Twas the Night Before Christmas."  This was not written by a Baptist pastor.  The author of the famous poem is credited as Clement Clarke Moore, an Episcopalian as well as a writer and professor.  The poem first appeared on December 23, 1823 in the newspaper with no name attached.  There is controversy over authorship as the family of Henry Livingston, Jr claimed that their father had recited to them the poem 15 years before it was published in the paper.

Stephanie Drury, from Stuff Christian Culture Likes, joins the pod to talk about ambiguous grief, her love of high church Catholicism mixed with charismatic Christianity, the November 3rd election, Henri Nouwen and more. Find Stephanie: Twitter:  @Stuffcclikes Facebook:  Stuff Christian Culture Likes Website:  www.stuffchristianculturelikes.com Podcasts:  "Dongtini", "Hard Feelings" Some Podcasts where she was a guest on the show:  https://www.owltail.com/people/yNFHA-stephanie-drury/appearances Mentioned on the Podcast: Article:  Sara Billups opinion piece in the New York Times:  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/01/opinion/trump-evangelicals.html Article:  Mere Orthodoxy on "The Five Stages of Evangelical Grief" by Brian Mesimer:  https://mereorthodoxy.com/five-stages-evangelical-grief/ Book:  "The Screwtape. Letters: Letters from a Senior to a Junior Devil" by CS Lewis.  Order here:  https://www.cslewis.com/uk/books/paperback/the-screwtape-letters-letters-from-a-senior-to-a-junior-devil-c-s-lewis-signature-classic/9780007461240/ Book:  "The Inner Voice of Love" by Henri JM Nouwen.  Order here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/122879/the-inner-voice-of-love-by-henri-jm-nouwen/ -Make sure you get your copy of Zach Malm's "The Darkest TIme of Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ -Check out music videos for some of the songs on "The Darkest Time of Year" by going to Zach's music channel on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2vlOs1iwoKxuvt8eCGD9g?reload=9 -Zach has created a new mix of Christmas music.  40 tracks and over an hour and a half.  Download the music here:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CbencqOQ4ti_r6jVjbiKloZpe9GmbEI7/view?fbclid=IwAR0xwEBkzLPgyJMBbisCN3FBcHzIii4a1ADSsmA2_1SQ1X7xr29cvLxSMSg -Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Stephanie- @stuffcclikes Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo done by Zach Malm

Writer and playwright Shannon Kearns talks to Zach and Dave about his story as a transgender Christian coming out of a more conservative upbringing.  Transgender theology is discussed as well as queer theology which Shannon helped co-found with Brian G. Murphy.  Shannon is currently writing a book for Eerdman's Publishing.  Be on the lookout for that in the next year or so. Follow Shannon Kearns on his Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/shannontlkearns/ Visit Queer Theology by going to:  https://www.queertheology.com/listen/ Check out Uprising Theater Company at:  https://www.uprisingtheatreco.com/ Mentioned on the podcast: Book:  Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity by Bruce Bawer.  Order here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/9840/stealing-jesus-by-bruce-bawer-author-of-a-place-at-the-table/ Book:  Transforming: The Bible and the Lives of Transgender Christians by Austin Hartke.  Order here: http://austenhartke.com/book Book:  Otherwise Christian: A Guide for Transgender Liberation by Chris Paige.  Order here:  https://otherwisechristian.com/books/ Book:  Radical Love: An Introduction to Queer Theology by Patrick Cheng.  Order here:  https://www.churchpublishing.org/radicallove Book:  Queer Virtue: What LGBTQ Know About Life and Love and How It Can Revitalize Christianity by Reverend Elizabeth M. Edman.  Order here:  https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/529950/queer-virtue-by-the-reverend-elizabeth-m-edman/ Book:  Is the Homosexual my Neighbor?  By Letha Dawson Scanzoni and Virginia Ramey Mollenkott Book:  A Theology of Liberation:  History, Politics and Salvation by Gustavo Gutierrez.  Order here:  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0171804/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Book:  A Black Theology of Liberation by Dr. James Cone.  Order here:  https://www.orbisbooks.com/a-black-theology-of-liberation.html TV Show:  "Pose".  From FX.  Watch a trailer here:  https://www.imdb.com/video/vi1441774617?playlistId=tt7562112&ref_=tt_ov_vi Documentary:  "Disclosure".   Streaming on Netflix.  Watch a trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eF4m5AJhpA Film:  "Boys Don't Cry".  Information and movie trailer here:  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0171804/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Make sure you get your copy of Zach Malm's "The Darkest TIme of Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ Check out music videos for some of the songs on "The Darkest Time of Year" by going to Zach's music channel on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2vlOs1iwoKxuvt8eCGD9g?reload=9 Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Shannon- @shannontlkearns Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo done by Zach Malm

Dedicated to the memory of Paul Malm. Randall Chrisman joins Zach and Dave to discuss Ableism, his experiences in Evangelical Christianity, and his story of faith.  They also analyze an episode of Focus on the Family's "Adventures in Odyssey" which was co-written by Zach's dad, Paul Malm, back in the 1990s. Mentioned on the pod: Book:  "Companions in Suffering" by Wendy Alsup.  Order here:  https://www.lifeway.com/en/product/companions-in-suffering-P008013447 TV Show:  "Away"    Streaming on Netflix.  Trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f_REapPwio TV Show:  "Speechless" On ABC.   Learn more here:  https://www.vulture.com/2016/12/speechless-micah-fowler-interview.html Documentary:  "Crip Camp"  Streaming on Netflix.  Trailer here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRrIs22plz0 TV Show:  "Crip Tales"  On AMC Plus.   Learn more here:  https://disabilityinsider.com/2020/09/21/misc/bbc-americas-crip-tales-features-the-talent-of-people-with-disabilities/ Make sure you get your copy of Zach Malm's "The Darkest TIme of Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/ Check out music videos for some of the songs on "The Darkest Time of Year" by going to Zach's music channel on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2vlOs1iwoKxuvt8eCGD9g?reload=9 Dave occasionally blogs at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com Twitter: Zach -  @muzach Dave- @davejlester Randall- @writerrand Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Music on podcast by Zach Malm Logo done by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave analyze the October newsletter sent out by Dr. James Dobson, one of the most prominent members of the Religious Right and founder of Focus on the Family who is supporting Donald Trump for president again.  We also talk about other Evangelicals supporting the Donald and preach a mini sermon about Christianity and political power. Mentioned on the show: Alissa Wilkinson on the Columbine tragedy:  https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/4/20/15369442/columbine-anniversary-cassie-bernall-rachel-scott-martyrdom Dare to Discipline by Dr. James Dobson Preparing for Adolescence by Dr. James Dobson Purchase a vinyl copy of Zach Malm's Christmas album "The Darkest Night of the Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave discuss Donald John Trump's relationship with Evangelicals via a letter supporting his re-election written by Dr. Wayne Grudem on Townhall.com.  Note: This is not the recent letter that Grudem wrote responding to former Pastor John Piper's thoughts on the election as we recorded this episode before Grudem wrote his most recent piece.  Here is the Piper article which was written after we recorded this episode:  https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/policies-persons-and-paths-to-ruin Mentioned on the show: Article, featuring a survey, on Evangelicals and morality in public leaders.  https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2016/10/19/has-trump-caused-white-evangelicals-to-change-their-tune-on-morality/ Systematic Theology by Wayne Grudem Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood by John Piper and Wayne Grudem (Dave made an error on the show calling this book "Rediscovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood".) Purchase a vinyl copy of Zach Malm's Christmas album "The Darkest Night of the Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave share their testimonies related to their experiences in Evangelical Christianity.   Purchase a vinyl copy of Zach Malm's Christmas album "The Darkest Night of the Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Podcast music by Zach Malm Logo by Zach Malm

Zach and Dave discuss the definition of Evangelicalism in the inaugural episode of the Evangelical explainer podcast.  They also discuss their experiences with Halloween related to the faith growing up. -Mentioned on the show:   Jonathan Merritt's "The Atlantic Article from December 7, 2015 entitled "Defining Evangelical":  https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/evangelical-christian/418236/ "The Myth of Certainty:  The Reflective Christian and the Risk of Commitment" by Daniel Taylor.  Order a copy here:  https://www.ivpress.com/the-myth-of-certainty -Purchase a vinyl copy of Zach Malm's Christmas album "The Darkest Night of the Year" by going here:  https://muzach.bandcamp.com/album/the-darkest-time-of-year -Read Dave's occasional blogging at:  www.dangeroushope.wordpress.com. Twitter: Zach- @muzach Dave- @Davejlester Email: vocwpod@gmail.com Podcast music by Zach Malm Special Thanks to Paul Swearengin with "The Non-Partisan Evangelical" Podcast.  Look for Zach and Dave's interview on his show soon in the feed.